Incan's Evaluation

I agree, he‘s somewhat better now, but the whole micromanagement on zero ammo thing should be abolished IMO. Its too much hassle for too little gain.
Last shot power should be reworked to give an increasing bonus, the less ammo you have in your magazine (or maybe overall?) and the ammo on elite kill should be active at all times to encourage melee killing elites, not only when you‘re out of ammo.
This way the melee/range weaving would be smoothed out and remove constant ammo worrying.
Making the ammo on melee elite kill passive, would also give him a reliable ammo sustain option besides having to slap scrounger on your gun therefor giving more options for his weaker guns.

Gotta give credit to Lenny. The removal of critreset on melee kill was actually a harsh nerf for those guns. I would like it being returned (maybe replace the 4s CD reduction with melee swap Buff instead)

@Incandescent Do you feel BH as a career is/was weak, or by comparison to WHC/Zealot?

I get the feeling that their ranged game (high critchance/ 30%power) is simply so good, that BH doesnt get to shine as a Range career with those two.

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That doesn’t really sound like a good idea at all.
If you nerf ranged to the point where they need support for both, melee and ranged then why even pick them?
Unless you basicly want to enforce them having a reason to get picked, like making the melees ranged not sustainable (even for killing specials), but ranged kills needed.
Which sounds even worse.

absolutely, yes

only area he particularly excels in compared to other options is monster killing

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Having to agree with most points.

On BH i just don’t like the idea of a BH running out of ammo and becoming unable to do his job (shooting elites and specials) to get a minor powerboost for a short time.
In total i can’t see why a BH should be wanting to fight at his weaker side and hoping to steal an elite kill before he needs to shoot again.
It doesn’t really help that most of his arsenal isn’t too good suited for.
It might works out in a premade, but will commonly fail with randoms.

I don’t get why huntsman had to get his ammo sustain removed, or rather forced to pick conservative shooter and cheese ammo sustain by making him shooting lined up enemies (basicly hordes) with weapons not really suited for.


Yeah, i get the same feeling for myself when i played her, but apparantly a lot of people think her too harsh.
Maybe they use it as an excuse to use a crutch that enables far more ult usage.
Personally I basically sat on her ult for whole Maps, just in case i needed it. That always felt kinda boring to me.

@Incandescent I made a small thread on Huntsman

My solution/suggestion is to introduce a free headshot mechanic as an optional talent competing on the same row as One In the Eye (Level 10).
This way players have to choose between more headshot damage or “easier” headshots, they can no longer be stacked and it’s optional choice depending on weapon choice and player’s skill/comfort level.

Remove Sure Shot/Reset and Return Waste Not, Want Not so Huntsman has build variety again, the way it’s going Huntsman could run into the same problem as Waystalker, must pick talent/trait choices.

This way everyone is happy, Blunder/Repeater players have an easier time proccing traits/talents but lose out on One in the eye (For balance reasons), top Huntsman players can play exactly how they used to and Huntsman gets his build variety back, no more forced Conservative Shooter picks.

Huntsman would only need small tweaks or bumps to certain talents to make everything competitive and hopefully more interesting ult talents. E.g:
Bottomless mags for Hunter’s Prowl duration would have great synergy with Repeater Handgun.

I think ult augments are more interesting than duration increases/stat boosts.
Wide Charge is a good example of this. Piercing Shot is another great example but isn’t a popular pick because Waystalker has a problematic kit or at the very least coaxed talent choices.


This would be in conjunction with making enemies harder to hit in melee. That way, range careers retain their ability to bypass most enemies’ defenses but at a cost. This would let them keep up with melee careers. It’s not an ideal solution. I would like to see range play increase in melee complexity alongside the melee combat instead, but any ideas that achieve that will have to come from someone wiser and more knowledgeable than myself for the time being.

That doesn’t either sound like a reason to pick a ranged class, but one against.

Actually that sort of thing was already tried at the outset of WoM… it nearly collapsed the entire Verm 2 community. They tried to slow the game down and push hard on Shield use and heavy melee, cut down dodge use, and slowed the melee weapon speed as a whole… they were forced to completely revert that for fear of losing the majority of the playerbase.

So that’s probably out the window.

However… I have thought about this a bit…

Because of all the previous nerfs to the Saltzpyre ranged weapons… and because both WHC and Zealot have strongly reinforced melee abilities in their skillset…

Perhaps its time to include the same types of things WHC and Zealot have on the BH side with regards to Ranged Weapons… for example… a skill choice of +40% headshot damage vs 20% power vs +30% Penetration choice that applies specifically to Ranged Weapons.

This would balance out the Range side bonuses for BH with the melee side bonuses for WHC and Zealot.

Thus Ranged weapons themselves, (much like with WHC and Zealot melee weapons) would not play a major part in the actual ability of the job to use them.

Ranged is already strong, talents that boost it are just making it even stronger. I’d rather they add more melee and hybrid choices to ranged careers instead of giving them the equivalent talents of a melee career but from behind the safety of their ranged weapons.

Imagine waystalker having a talent which boosts her ranged damage by 30%. GG.

Your idea could work, but it would not be able to work in the current state of ranged careers. They would have to have alot less ammo and require some melee, as an example.

The reason I even bring this up is quite frankly BECAUSE we’ve had the same issue over on the melee side.

Quite frankly the Melee weapons of Saltzpyre are complete crap, a lot of it due to the Nerfaholics thinking they can “fix” something which never ends up affecting either Zealot of WHC, because their own skills reinforce the weapons.

The Nerfaholics DID however succeed very well in turning the base weapons into complete crap for a BH.

Sooo… why is it the Melee weapon nerfs never affect WHC and Zealot?

Hmm that’s because their skillsets are what make those weapons great… not the weapons themselves. The weapons themselves suck balls. (read as BH usage of them)

Something in a skillset giving BH the ability to do the same… will negate this constant fight over Ranged weapons so buffing/nerfing the Ranged weapons won’t accidently overbalance either Zealot or WHC.

Thus finally ending this pointless vicious cycle.

Bro what are you talking about, he’s got the strongest melee weapons after Kerillian.


Oh THAT must be why Bounty Hunter is such a melee god compared to others…

Oh wait… he’s not is he?

Because he’s a ranged career? what you expect? the ranged career to be on the same par as Merc, or Slayer? Unless you specifically build for it on BH, he has 0 melee buffs, so off course he’s going too be weaker in melee, than those career’s.

You can not without joking tell me that Billhook is a weak weapon lmao.


Yes certain weapons are overperforming and certain talents are overperforming. What melee weapon got nerfed from saltzpyre that wasn’t overperforming, but was because of the zealot and whc’s kit? If it was billhook then the alt attack was a crutch even on bh, the fix only affected him and not the other 2. But the alt attack was overperforming regardless of talents.

What melee careers make better use of ranged weapons then ranged careers? I’m pretty sure every ranged career makes better use of every ranged weapon then a melee one, but maybe i missed one.


So in other words… you’re actually admitting the melee weapons themselves are complete crap… And the ONLY thing that makes them good are the skillsets of the characters… which is what I’ve been saying.

Ergo you are wasting your time on weapons or thinking you can buff/nerf your way out of this.

That’s not true. Falchion on bh is good. When comparing it it’s worse, sure, but its a good weapon and more than viable for what it needs to do.


Ok so, BH a ranged focused career, has weaker melee, than Merc a melee focused career, and that’s a bad thing? Take away merc’s melee talents, and you are left with garbage weapons, take away bardins melee talents, and you are left with the second-worst weapons in the entire game.

Take away saltzpyre’s melee talents, and you are still left with amazing melee weapons.


What’s crap about rapier, billhook, axe & falchion, or all the other newly buffed weapons like flail, falchion and axe? In what way are they crap?


No quite the opposite.

I do recall directly stating in this threat the solution is to make Ranged based skills for the BH the same way Zealot and WHC have melee based skills.

Read above to see my recommendations.

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