Huntsman feel terrible to play now and this is why

The most recent changes to huntsman talents just make him terrible to play.

  1. Any ranged weapon with any kind of cleaving will remove stacks of Sure Shot if secondary targets didn’t head shot.

  2. Huntsman ranged weapon often comes with a slight delay when aiming (Bow full charge, handgun aim accuracy delay) so under pressure it’s very difficult to make accurate headshot to eliminate high threat target, and having to shoot through a horde isn’t helping.

  3. If the intention of the change is to reward headshot, then it isn’t rewarding when the users already have good headshot skill.

  4. Most of his talent tree isn’t streamlining huntsman usage. If he is meant for ranged combat then somehow it seems that all these nerfs are targeting his ranged potential. If he’s meant for a mix of melee/ranged combat then the melee side is very underwhelming, with the saving graces being the damage reduction (somehow turn him into a tankier Ranger Veteran if anything, but susceptible to chip damage like arrows, stray bullets and gas since they remove stacks)

Quick analysis for general huntsman talent tree:

General:

  • Standard ranged career stuff.
  • Sure Shot currently is unusable if the ranged weapon has any kind of cleave.
  • Doesn’t work well under pressure and doesn’t reward good headshot skill.
  • Prowl still consume ammo to shoot unlike BH. It just doesn’t consume ammo to reload.

lv 5 talents:

  • Lacks of cleaving THP make him slightly weaker as a melee combatant.

lv 10 talents:

  • Make 'Em Bleed requires critical hits and doesn’t stacks with similar effect being a downgrade over BH talents which guarantee critical hits
  • Free Shot is nice because it doesn’t consume ammunition, but most of huntsman ranged weapon are just slow to take advantage of this and in any “huntsman OP show case video” often requires him to take a potion. This should not be treated as unbalance because for the longest time Shade players take potion before doing ult backstab and I don’t see people complaining about Shade being broken.
  • One in the eye used to work great with previous Sure Shot, it isn’t now when you cannot utilize it when you need it most.

lv 20 talents:

  • While most talents appear good to use, they are just underwhelming as lv 20 talents.
  • Body Count would be in a better place if it can offer higher Sure Shot maximum stacks instead.

lv 25 talents

  • Longshanks feels great
  • the rest of the talents didn’t feel like they should be there as there are little reason to take them as lv 25 talents.
  • Maybe if Make it look easy affect the Aura instead then it can be considered for party play.
  • Increase ranged cleave works as well instead of shotcrafter, offering a different playstyle for Huntsman to deal with horde using ranged weapon while limiting option for infinite sustain.

Lv 30 talents

  • Concealed Strike being a clear winner since it guarantees safety when under pressure.
  • Head down and hidden is stupid because huntsman can’t even use that whole 10 seconds if everything turns to him after his first shot. Also staying invisible for a long time will dump all aggro to the next person nearby which will increase his chance of dying while the horde continue to stack up in size.
  • Reset CDR nerf was not needed after max Sure Shot stacks was reduced more than half, and the users have higher risk of dying if he tries to use all that stacks to deal damage at once during prowl.

I am not sure what’s the main direction for Huntsman as a career, but whatever it is, currently Huntsman are being punished for being bad and it’s not rewarding for good play either. He’s currently a selfish tanky ranger veteran that lacks team support, slow range damage with many talents front loaded for range weapon. If anything he feels like the worst career to play among ranged characters.

11 Likes

I wouldn’t call him a tanky rv by any means.

I also don’t get why the removed his passive ammo sustain.

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Not really arguing any of these points specifically, in fact I agree with most of them, but after playing around with 1h sword + handgun HS I’d say that build at least feels very good, despite not even having a good thp talent for the 1h sword (AKA cleave).

I’ve been grinding solo Cata with bots with BH (my main), and throwing every build I could come up with against it with little success. After the latest patch, changed to aforementioned HS build and despite relatively little experience with HS by comparison, started doing a great deal better almost immediately, consistently, over quite a number of runs.

Haven’t tried builds with his other ranged weapons yet, maybe they’re all terrible now I don’t know, but I at least resent the suggestion that he’s now in any way worse than BH, who has a crushing lack of competitive build options, and suffered a pretty significant nerf in the loss of melee kill reset.

3 Likes

Sure Shot still doesn’t work on Empire Bow, so we don’t know about that.

Blunderbuss isn’t as insane as it was, and getting stacks with it is pretty difficult without Body Count, but it’s definitely stronger than it was prior to the BBB, and it was supposedly already pretty good (I didn’t play it much prior). The ammo sustain is actually very good, especially with Body Count.

Repeater Handgun is a lot weaker now, actually. You can’t decimate bosses the same way you could before the patch, and getting stacks with it is also a bit difficult (for me, at least), and they go by pretty fast as well. It’s still stronger than pre-BBB, of course, and it’s still a good option, even though it requires a lot of ammo sustain now.

Handgun I haven’t tested much yet but I suspect it’ll be one of the least affected weapons by the patch, since getting headshots with it is quite easy, and it didn’t use up as many stacks as Repeater Handgun.

Overall I think the current iteration of Huntsman is actually quite good, I’m not sure why OP suggests he isn’t strong. He’s definitely better than BH.

With handgun and 1 ammo per headshot you can get insane ammo regen. You can cleave few skavenslaves in horde with 1 headshot with Sure Shot. Was testing that and on ult i was able to get like 3-4 bullets per shot.

His dmg is good. Sustain is good. Only what is bad is that Sure doesn’t work with bow

I think forcing Huntsman to get headshots to get stacks was an awful suggestion by many on this forum. If I have a bodyshot breakpoint (which handgun reaches easily) I don’t see a reason to aim for the head if they’d die anyway. Lowering the stacks of sure shot was the only change needed imo, but it just doesn’t feel like it favors repeater handgun as much as the other ranged weapons. Removing waste not want not also kind of forces you to run conservative shooter on every weapon.

4 Likes

Thank you! Glad to see I’m not the only one who feels this way. We’re also back to the situation where you want to be aiming for headshots with the blunderbuss which is just… well not fun or intuitive at all.

And as you said, it’s pretty counter to the rep handgun’s playstyle too. Hope everyone like conservative shooter. Now poor HS is in BH’s position of being almost entirely reliant on weapon traits for ammo sustain which is pretty backwards IMO.

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Why would you need stacks if they die in 1 bodyshot?

Blunderbuss was already in a good spot before BBB in my opinion.

I feel like they missed their intention of the reason to add stacks. The reason was to make the career less intimidating and less frustrating if you missed a hs, act a bit like a ‘failsafe’.
But instead i feel players are not liking it because they cannot get enough stacks, or their stacks get removed on bodyshotting horde enemies. Having ‘free’ headshots when you miss is already a huge buff in my opinion. I get the impression players expect to be able to bodyshot spam now.

I do agree that removing the ammo regen was maybe not the smartest idea, but besides that.

It’s not about whether it’s in a “good spot”, I’m talking about how it actually feels to play. Highly encouraging headshots with a shotgun is dumb, when that require aiming so that half your shots go over something’s head. Shotguns should be encouraged to aim centre mass, where it actually makes sense to aim.

I get it’s strong enough, I just strongly feel the way HS “synergises” with it is janky as all hell. I’m glad they added body count so you would have some chance to actually use your passive.

It just feels bad and unintuitive. Not weak, just bad.

2 Likes

Ah ok, i miss understood it.
I didn’t have an issue triggering hs’s on live with blunder before, but i can understand it being not intuitive.

It’s not that I can’t either, it’s just it looks and feels dumb, and literally makes you pick between ammo sustain and actually hitting with more than half your bullets. That’s gross.

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To trigger his headshot related bonuses.

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SureShot being acquired on headshots is just a silly idea aslong as that damned stack gets consumed by cleaving. Aiming at monks with at Hundgun, or Bow will most likely not grant you a stack, since the projectile will pass through the head and hit something in the thump behind it, which consumes the stack. Kind of ruins the incentive. Also hitting corpses removes a stack. (You dont get two stacks if you score a double cleave headshot, incase you asked yourself that.)

Than there is the point that Blunder and Repeater not appreciating the stacks all the time. Not being able to oneshot Maulers with the Blunder, or not being able to deal any damage at all to them with the Repeater just sucks and it seems like FS, nor anyone else seems to care about that. Mauler waves are frequent enough in Cata and are actually scarry with their hip charge you cant see in the second row. Stacks being created by headshots should not hinder your performance.

Reset just got completely slaughtered. Its not worth taking at all. Concealed Strikes is still the by far best choice. The four stacks Reset offers are nowhere near worth the safety of CS and Head Downs extra seconds are most likely spent repositioning and watching your backside. If the betas main purpose was to make people consider different Talents, Huntsmans Row 30 is a complete failure.

Make em Bleed still features the “does not stack with similar effects” line that tries to tell us something and Bulwark is still a part of Huntsman for Sigmar knows what reason.

6 Likes

It’s like, they could have just fixed how BB interacts with sure shot (my suggestion was only the centre pellet is an auto headshot), then reduced the max stacks and/or make them a bit harder to get and it would have been fine, and way more versatile than what we have now.

Instead they just made it so every HS build runs CS, repeater and Blunderbuss struggle to even get sure shot stacks effectively, but when BB does get stacks, it becomes either broken strong or significantly worse than normal, depending on the enemy you’re shooting.

What we have now is just the absolute worst of both worlds. There are still strong builds, as I outlined higher up, but this change just gives him even worse synergy with half his ranged arsenal.

Great patch FS, worth the wait :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

2 Likes

When you decide NOT to kill a mauler.

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I agree he still needs some cleanup for sure

my biggest gripe is he’s pretty tied down to conservative shooter now due to the removal of Waste Not, Want Not

He’s tied down to this trait now more so than any other ranged class

However, in terms of general gameplay he feels pretty good, Manbow is strong as ever with the bonus power stacks on headshots

Big agree with this part in particular, I don’t notice the stacks really unless I’m shooting at a chaos spawn or some other target that’s uniquely difficult to headshot consistently (subtle flex/humble brag I guess)

3 Likes

Well. Repeater got its already quite impressive Skaven Patrol damage upgraded to obliteration mode, but this still doesnt make the Mauler problem better. Overall that weapon gets handed the small stick. Its still as good in dealing with specials in the hand of a Knight, as it is in the paws of a SureShot Huntsman. With the Reset change the monster damage got gutted quite a bit.

Blunder I find to just not perform reliable. The new acquisition of Stacks is rather random, thanks to the cleave problem I talked about and the nature of Blunder having issues getting headshots counted as such. That plus the Maulers not being able to get killed when you finally have stacks is rather annoying.

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Gosh this seems familiar. I feel like there’s some other ranged class who’s almost entirely dependent on 1 weapon trait for ammo sustain :stuck_out_tongue:

Yeah I really don’t like forcing ranged classes into 1 specific trait. Would be more of an issue if there were other good ones to pick, but I don’t get why they’ve decided to lump HS with the same issues BH has.

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I just hate how shooting a raider in the body with blunder makes them not instantly die when you have a stack as they get damage reduction when hit in the head.

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