Hope Mace / Hammer and Shield be changed at next patch

Actually, after BBB patch 4, I almost didn’t use Mace / Hammer and Shield.
Because I hate that changes (especially about attack combo changes).
So, for who likes anti horde combo before BBB patch 4 and who likes anti armoured combo after BBB patch 4, I bring new idea to here.

Current Mace / Hammer and Shield attacks

L1(swing), L2 (swing), L3 (uppercut), H1 (Shield bash), H2 (swing), Push attack (overhead)

Current Mace / Hammer and Shield attack combo

Push attack (overhead) -> L3 (uppercut)
Push attack (overhead) -> H2 (swing)

After BBB patch 4, Mace / Hammer and Shield had 1 more armoured attack. And those attack combo also are changed. But I hope these weapon’s attack order and attack combo are changed more.

Solution)

  • Swap L3 and H2 then rollback Push attack -> L2 -> L3.

L3 (uppercut) ↔ H2 (swing) ==> L3 (swing) , H2(uppercut)

So, rollback this combo please.

Push attack(overhead) -> L2 (swing) -> L3 (swing)

This combo is good for killing horde & berserker. Because this combo reduces Mace / Hammer and Shield light attack speed and has good stagger ability.

  • And then change current anti armoured combo Push attack(overhead) -> L3(uppercut) to like this.

Push attack(overhead) -> H2(uppercut)

Then, it can satisfy all guys needs.
Push attack (overhead) -> L2 (swing) -> L3 (swing) : anti horde and berserker.
Push attack (overhead) -> H2 (uppercut) : anti armoured

1 Like

So, you want to make it pretty much the same as Sword & Shield, basically?

Right now, L3 after pushattack is nice and quick, which means that it can hit the berserker before stagger wears off and you get slapped again. Pushattack followed by L1 and 2 is too slow for that. And against hordes, H2 after pushattack is actually quite good. You could also chain L2 and H2 continously against hordes, or just H1 and H2.

So I don’t see how your proposed change really adds something. I even think it takes something away, because the current H2 (the horizontal sweep) is useful against hordes. In your proposition, what would happen to it? Removed? Or made into H3 which will mean changes for some other combos and remove the useful H1 - H2 combo? That’ll also make the moveset completely identical to S&S, by the way.

The M/H&S already currently has good combinations for armor, hordes, as well as berserkers. I don’t think it needs messing with anymore. Some attack speed for at least the light attack chain would be a good change, though.

2 Likes

Can you upload your solo(w/bots) cata M/H&S video? I can’t understand why these weapons are now good after BBB patch 4. And I never seen any players who like and use M/H&S after BBB patch 4 in cata public room.

And, you said

So, you want to make it pretty much the same as Sword & Shield, basically?

└> I think, after BBB patch 4, that changes make M/H&S pretty much the same as S&S.
Because, I think Mace & Shield is weapon for staggering whole things, not for killing whole thing easily. So I never thought

Right now, L3 after pushattack is nice and quick, which means that it can hit the berserker before stagger wears off and you get slapped again.

└> Yes. But [Push attack - L3(uppercut)] combo consumes your stamina more faster than before BBB patch 4 when you fight with lots of elites.

Pushattack followed by L1 and 2 is too slow for that.

└> Does this mean [Push attack - L2 - L3] combo before BBB patch 4? If so, Push attack - L2 - L3 was fast and safe combo for anti horde and berserker.

And against hordes, H2 after pushattack is actually quite good. You could also chain L2 and H2 continously against hordes, or just H1 and H2.

└> Yes. Thanks your for giving me information about anti horde combo [ Push attack -> H2(swing)] , [ L2 -> H2 repeat] combo. I didn’t know it. But previous combo [Push attack -> L2(swing) -> L3(swing)] was more faster at anti horde and berserkers.

So I don’t see how your proposed change really adds something. I even think it takes something away, because the current H2 (the horizontal sweep) is useful against hordes.

└> What’s different current H2 (horizontal sweep) and previous H2 (horizontal sweep)? As I know, there’s no changes about H2 after BBB patch 4.

In your proposition, what would happen to it? Removed? Or made into H3 which will mean changes for some other combos and remove the useful H1 - H2 combo? That’ll also make the moveset completely identical to S&S, by the way.

└> Sorry, I don’t understand what you say because of my low English skill. But I don’t talk about adding H3 and removing current useful H1 - H2 combo. When devs changed H1(swing)- H2(shield bash) to H1(shield bash) - H2(swing), I also was happy. Because it’s good.

I only said 3 things.

  1. Swap current L3(uppercut) and H2(swing) / change chain attack combo.
  2. Rollback combo : Push attack (overhead) -> L2 (swing) -> L3 (swing) : anti horde and berserker.
  3. change current anti armoured combo : Push attack (overhead) -> H2 (uppercut) : anti armoured
    If you don’t understand what I said, that’s my fault which is poor English skill.

※ At end, I added my test video.
I used same build during test.

Foot Knight
Build : https://www.ranaldsgift.com/3/133123/20,3,7,3/12,6,3,2/3,2,1/4,3,4/7,6,2

Ranger Veteran
Build : https://www.ranaldsgift.com/4/123323/12,3,7,3/23,6,2,2/3,2,1/1,3,1/7,6,1

  • Foot Knight M&S vs 20 Monks
  1. Non BBB
    https://youtu.be/KnGd1Udi0j8
  2. BBB
    https://youtu.be/_dGQW9VIXN4
  • Ranger Veteran H&S vs 20 Monks
  1. Non BBB
    https://youtu.be/cjYGZw9EPgY
  2. BBB
    https://youtu.be/iGYlZ0-77fE

My arguments would be that I enjoyed the old move set, since I played M+S more than any other Shield Weapon, but the damage has helped it.

I’d much prefer if they had the old Push-Attack > Light, which were both overheads, but buffed that combo as they have done with the uppercut.

It’s actually insane on GK now. Never thought I’d use on-kill THP with a Shield Weapon, or kill 91 Elites a match with it, but here we are.

Also found it pretty good for IB.

For Hammer + Shield, I personally prefer the original push-stab - shield bash over the (since patch 4) push-stab - heavy swing. It was easier to keep mixed hordes under control.

After patch 4, I find myself blocking enemy attacks more often. It just feels less fluid.

4 Likes

Not being able to bash after a pushattack is frustrating, it used to be a powerful way to staggerlock groups of stormies.

The whole moveset feels weird, ive never been a fan of the only overhead being locked behind a pushattack- most weapons pushattacks are variants of something they can do anyway, it feels unnatural.

I’d suggest that we change light attack 1 to be an overhead, that way we can combo-cancel it against armoured enemies. Losing a light sweep on L1 is no real loss since the heavies are both powerful CC hits.

2 Likes

I was curious how good this move actually is, so looked it up on armoury and what the heck? Sorry if this is old news to everyone, but It literally has the 2 handed hammer heavy attack stagger/damage cleave profile, tank and all, but with more damage (even against armour) than the 2 handed hammer heavies!? And is only 0.01 second slower than a 2h hammer heavy. Wow have I been underutilising this move lol.

1 Like

Yes, I heard that M&S is good with GK for killing elites by spamming Push attack - L3 combo. But how do you think about killing and controlling massive horde and berserkers by using M/H&S other combo as other careers after BBB patch 4?

In my opinion, ‘current’ L1 attack speed so slow that I have to accept getting hit from enemy before use it when massive horde are attacking me. So I don’t want to, and can’t use L1-L2 cancel combo against massive horde. I also don’t use L2-H2 combo because it is quite annoying to start this combo and slow to use L2 and H2 both.

And against berserkers, for safe and damage, I also used Push attack - L3 combo. But this combo dries player’s stamina more quickly - if there are a lot of berserkers (especially mixed with horde) - than previous version of M/H&S. Moreover this combo [ push attack(single target damage after crowd control) -> L3(single target damage) is almost focused on damaging 1 single target and gives up staggering lots of horde and elites unlike previous M/H&S combo [ push attack (single target damage after crowd control) -> L2 (multi target, crowd control) -> L3 (multi target, crowd control) ].

3 Likes

I definitely agree with you and @Hum in terms of CC.

The Light speed could be increased to give it single target and multi target options.

They must have figured Push > Charged (Slam) is what people wanted, just for CC, but as I argued about M+S’s strengths in other threads, it used to damage while CCing with Push-Attacks into Lights, but this doesn’t seem to be the case now.

I just hope it retains some of the strength it gained from the new combo, whatever they do.

1 Like

For Hammer + Shield, I personally prefer the original push-stab - shield bash over the (since patch 4) push-stab - heavy swing. It was easier to keep mixed hordes under control.

└> I also liked [Push attack -> H1 (Shield bash) ] combo before BBB patch 4. When I wrote this thread, I forgot thinking about that valuable combo. Thank you for reminding me of that combo c:

After patch 4, I find myself blocking enemy attacks more often. It just feels less fluid.

└> I agree it. Even though I equiped M/H&S, I experienced less confidence with using it than before BBB patch 4.

1 Like

Not being able to bash after a pushattack is frustrating, it used to be a powerful way to staggerlock groups of stormies.

└> Sorry. When I wrote this thread, I forgot thinking about [ push attack - H1 (shield bash) - H2(swing) ] combo. That combo was my favorite too in BBB before patch 4.

The whole moveset feels weird, ive never been a fan of the only overhead being locked behind a pushattack- most weapons pushattacks are variants of something they can do anyway, it feels unnatural.

└> Yes. Personally, I prefer M/H&S changes after BBB starts and before BBB patch 4.

I’d suggest that we change light attack 1 to be an overhead, that way we can combo-cancel it against armoured enemies. Losing a light sweep on L1 is no real loss since the heavies are both powerful CC hits.

└> Like a sienna mace? Good idea. I agree your suggestion.

1 Like

Don’t worry, your English is fine. I’ll try to explain myself a little better.

The effects these proposed changes would have:

Against Hordes:
The pushattack and follow up would now be the only effective way to go against hordes, as this (and just doing the light chain) would be your only access to the heavy sweeping attack which is - in your suggested version - L3. (And as @alsozara rightly said: The sweep attack is awesome!)

Right now in the BBB, you can already easily access the heavy sweep quickly after the pushattack (pushattack - heavy attack makes you do the sweep), and the only difference with the BBB and your proposed change would be that light 2 isn’t between the pushattack and the sweep in the BBB while it is between them in your idea, so your proposed change only makes this combo worse against hordes because it takes longer to get to that sweet, sweet sweep.

The currently (in BBB) existing option to chain the second light swing and the heavy sweep infinitely will also be removed in your proposition, and this is actually a pretty good combo to have. (In your suggestion you’d be able to chain light swing 1 - light swing 2 - sweep infinitely, but that’s less sweeps in the same time, and therefore less good in my view.)

The current option to chain the shield bash and the heavy sweep (by doing just heavies one after another) will also not be available anymore in your proposed change (because the sweep is replaced by the uppercut), which is also a pretty great loss if you ask me.

And none of your new combos would weigh up to the still available push - bash (H1) combo when it comes to making space and horde control, so I don’t think they add much in situations where you need to stagger stuff and make space.

The current super quick pushattack - uppercut combo is also one of the very best attacks to pick out a single target in a mixed horde safely for damage, and in your proposition this would be lost as well. Because doing the same thing in your suggested change means you need to charge a heavy attack to get to the uppercut after the pushattack, instead of a rapid light. Which is often not possible in the short time you have before you need to block or push again against an overwhelming horde.

In summary: I feel your proposed changes would make the M/H&S overall worse against (mixed) hordes.

Against Berserkers:
First, I’d like to say I absolutely loved to watch all those videos of you pummeling entire regiments of Plaguemonks into the floor. I salute you. Doing Sigmar / Grimnir’s work, you do.

But as I watched both the BBB and the non-BBB versions, I think that, even though the non-BBB killing time might be a little faster, the BBB version looks maybe a little safer to me without suffering in killing time by a significant amount.

We must also not forget that a group of 20 Plaguemonks is not a very common situation in normal gameplay. In case of a mixed horde in which you need to pick off a few berserkers fast (which is a more realistic scenario), the BBB version of pushattack - uppercut is a lot faster (and therefore safer) than the pushattack - light 2 - sweep combo you’d like to have. The sweep in your proposed new combo would probably come out just a little too slow in the fights you made videos of (because the heavy sweep takes a little more time than the current light 3 sweep), so you’d need to defend or get hit before you could do the sweep.

In summary: I’m not convinced pushattack - light 2 - sweep combo will be much better vs. berserkers than the current pushattack - uppercut.

Against Elites:
I’m very certain that if you made videos of you fighting with the BBB and the non-BBB versions of M/H&S against 20 Stormvermin (or Beastigors, or Chaos Warriors, or even Maulers) instead of Plaguemonks, the results in the BBB versions would be a lot better than those in the non-BBB versions. By a large margin, even. The pushattack - uppercut eats (armored) elites like Stormvermin for lunch (and dinner, and the leftovers for breakfast the next day), and also does that in a much faster way than any of the old combinations ever could.

I also think the BBB version of pushattack - [uppercut by doing a light attack] is better than your proposed version of pushattack - [uppercut by doing a heavy attack], because that’s just not as fast, and therefore not as safe in crowded situations. Which you will unavoidably face with this weapon.

In summary:
Your proposed changes would make the weapon not better, and probably worse, against Elites.

Conclusion:
All the above things combined make me feel the changes you proposed wouldn’t in the end be beneficial for this weapon.

I hope I managed to explain myself properly. In case some specific thing is not clear, please ask me and I’ll try to clarify.

1 Like

@Hum , @disgruntledpeasant :

But the now (in BBB) available push - bash (H1) combo is better than the old pushattack - bash combo ever was when it comes to controlling (mixed) hordes. And in case you need to do some targeted damage to a single target in a mixed horde, the new pushattack - uppercut (L3) combo is also much better for that than the old combo was. And the difference in stamina cost between the new and the old combos isn’t that big either.

I really think the new combos allow for more versatility and effectiveness than the old ones did. It might take some time adjusting after internalizing the old combos, but they do really seem more effective to me.

1 Like

If there were your M/H&S cata solo(w/bots) videos, it would be good and I could understand easily what you want to say. But thank you for replying with long sentences.

Against Hordes:
The pushattack and follow up would now be the only effective way to go against hordes, as this (and just doing the light chain) would be your only access to the heavy sweeping attack which is - in your suggested version - L3. (And as @alsozara rightly said: The sweep attack is awesome!)

└→ I have different opinion against yours. [ Push attack - L2(swing) - L3(swing) ] combo was good against horde and every elites who mixed with horde. Against horde and berserker, it can damage and stagger multi targets(infantry type). Against armoured elites, it can damage single target and stagger multi tagers by push attack(push + overhead), and also can stagger single target by L2 and L3. In this point, someone can doubt staggering ability of M/H&S light attacks. But these have really good stagger ability. Click link and check M/H&S on index. This will show why these weapons good at staggering whole things. : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2016180682

Furthermore, I want to know ‘effective way of using M/H&S’ which you said above. My ‘effective way of using M/H&S’ means that player who is using M/H&S has to be safe for using it and staggering whole things to protect team from being hit by elite or horde attacks.

Right now in the BBB, you can already easily access the heavy sweep quickly after the pushattack (pushattack - heavy attack makes you do the sweep), and the only difference with the BBB and your proposed change would be that light 2 isn’t between the pushattack and the sweep in the BBB while it is between them in your idea, so your proposed change only makes this combo worse against hordes because it takes longer to get to that sweet, sweet sweep.

The currently (in BBB) existing option to chain the second light swing and the heavy sweep infinitely will also be removed in your proposition, and this is actually a pretty good combo to have. (In your suggestion you’d be able to chain light swing 1 - light swing 2 - sweep infinitely, but that’s less sweeps in the same time, and therefore less good in my view.)

└→ [ Push attack - H2 (heavy swing) ] combo is already exist on non BBB server too. [ H1 (heavy swing) - L2 (light swing) ] combo is non BBB version. Even though there is [ H1(heavy swing) - L2 (light swing) ] combo in non BBB server, I also never seen players who use this combo. Most player used to use [push attack - L2 (swing) - L3 (swing)] combo. Moreover, I also never seen any videos which recorded player using [ H1(heavy swing) - L2 (light swing) ] combo against horde in non BBB. Because this combo have short attack range and slow attack speed, so repeating this combo is too dangerous to use.

Against Berserkers:
But as I watched both the BBB and the non-BBB versions, I think that, even though the non-BBB killing time might be a little faster, the BBB version looks maybe a little safer to me without suffering in killing time by a significant amount.

└→ If you saw the speed of consuming my stamina, it would be good. In non BBB version, I almost didn’t consume my stamina. Repeating [Push attack-L2(swing)-L3(swing)] combo doesn’t disturb player’s stamina recovery. Because player doesn’t have to use ‘push’ frequently in this combo. In contrast to this, in BBB version, I almost consumed my all of stamina at the end of FK video and at middle of RV video. Repeating [ Push attack - L3 (uppercut) ] combo drains player stamina quickly and also disturbs player’s stamina recovery. Because it doesn’t give player any time to recover stamina. If player use stamina quickly and consume all of stamina at some situation, it can put player at risk.

We must also not forget that a group of 20 Plaguemonks is not a very common situation in normal gameplay. In case of a mixed horde in which you need to pick off a few berserkers fast (which is a more realistic scenario), the BBB version of pushattack - uppercut is a lot faster (and therefore safer) than the pushattack - light 2 - sweep combo you’d like to have. The sweep in your proposed new combo would probably come out just a little too slow in the fights you made videos of (because the heavy sweep takes a little more time than the current light 3 sweep), so you’d need to defend or get hit before you could do the sweep.

└→ Yes. You could think like that. Sorry, I didn’t explain exactly about L3. In fact, I don’t want L3 be heavy swing. I just want L3 be same as L2 (light swing).

Against Elites:
I’m very certain that if you made videos of you fighting with the BBB and the non-BBB versions of M/H&S against 20 Stormvermin (or Beastigors, or Chaos Warriors, or even Maulers) instead of Plaguemonks, the results in the BBB versions would be a lot better than those in the non-BBB versions. By a large margin, even. The pushattack - uppercut eats (armored) elites like Stormvermin for lunch (and dinner, and the leftovers for breakfast the next day), and also does that in a much faster way than any of the old combinations ever could.

└→ Yes. Non-BBB version combo is not good at quickly killing those elites (armoured, mauler). But I said about ‘effective way of using M/H&S’ above, I can control those elites for teammate to kill it easily or can hold them far from teammate until they can help me.

I also think the BBB version of pushattack - [uppercut by doing a light attack] is better than your proposed version of pushattack - [uppercut by doing a heavy attack], because that’s just not as fast, and therefore not as safe in crowded situations. Which you will unavoidably face with this weapon.

└→ Sadly, my suggestion combo [ Push attack (overhead) - H2 (uppercut) ] is not available now. So I can’t test and try it. Also, what I want to say is, killing elites slowly doesn’t always mean unsafe. Keeping staggering elites and killing them slowly also means safe.

I have never recorded gameplay before, and I’m embarassed to admit I don’t exactly know how to do that. Does it require specific software? I could look into that and try to make a few clips for you, but I don’t know when - or even if - I’ll have the time for that in the next couple of days…

Fair enough: Using the heavy sweep is not the only effective way of using the M/H&S, I worded that wrong. But it is a very effective way to use it that gives you control as well as damage. The light attacks are nice and staggering, I won’t deny that, but the heavy sweep is just better damage wise and does great stagger as well. Because it’s perfectly horizontal it’s great for headshotting more than one enemy in the horde, and you can hit more targets more easily.

My main problem with your suggested changes to this weapon is that you want to remove the heavy sweep by replacing it with a heavy uppercut, or at least mess with the heavy chain and other chains in such a way that you can’t use the heavy sweep anymore, or at least not as easily. I think the heavy sweep is an integral part of this weapon.

And about the pushattack - L2 - L3 combo: I think the current pushattack - light 3 - other lights combo is almost identical to that one in function, and the pushattack - heavy sweep or pushattack - light 3 - heavy sweep combos fulfill pretty much the same function, or the push (without attack) - light - light combo. You can always weave in a quick pushattack - light 3 - block combo to whack a single enemy over the head in a mixed horde if that’s what you need, because it’s so nice and fast and safe. I don’t need a combo to attack a single target and a horde, because I prefer to use combos to hit a single taget in a mixed horde and combos to fight a horde in combinations. And when I do need to switch between single target and horde fighting, I can use pushattack - heavy sweep and pushattack - L3 - heavy sweep, which I wouldn’t be able to do anymore with your proposed changes.

Pushattack - heavy sweep exists outside the BBB, I know, but my point is that it wouldn’t exist in your proposed changes anymore, because it would be replaced by pushattack, [uppercut by doing heavy attack]. And I sometimes really like to be able to use the sweep after pushattack to switch from single target to horde fighting, or to start fighting a horde after getting out of block by doing a push. And about people not using light 2 - heavy sweep combo: I just don’t know what to say. I use it a lot. It’s quite effective against a horde. (Like I said, if I can record some gameplay I’ll upload it for you.) It takes some time getting used to the rythm, but because the heavy sweep is such a good attack it’s worth it.

Fair enough, pushattack - L3 combo is very stamina hungry. But there’s no reason you need to do it as often as possible. You can pause a bit between using it, weaving in a heavy bash, some lights, the sweep, whatever. Or just hold block. With some block cost reduction and a dodge here and there, there’s a good chance you’ll even be able to recover stamina that way if you don’t push for a few seconds, even with dense enemies in front of you. But the ability to dish out those 2 hits fast with pushattack - L3 and be back in blocking really quickly after is very valuable. The speed of pushattack - L3 is a big part of why it’s so effective and safe. Just because you’ll run out of stamina if you do the combo non-stop is a non-argument to me, as that’s easily countered by not doing it non-stop…

Could you elaborate a bit? Where would heavy sweep be in your suggested rework then? It’s not in the heavy chain anymore, as you want it replaced with an uppercut. And here you say it’s also not in the light chain anymore either? You want it to be H3? You want it removed?

I really feel like removing it from this weapon would be a huge nerf. I also feel like making it H3 is a bad idea, because it’ll mess up a lot of other combos, and it would remove the bash - sweep combo, which is also useful.

Since this is a discussion about the M/H&S itself, I don’t think “But my teammates can kill it.” is a good argument. And in the case where you want to just control, the push - bash or bash - sweep combos (which you would remove in your suggested changes!) are way better for that anyways! So in a situation where you need to just control, pushattack - L2 -L3 would never be a more effective option anyways.

That’s fair: Discussion about this attack is hard since it doesn’t exist. But it could theoretically never be just as fast as pushattack - L3 is. And the speed of pushattack - L3 is one of its main strenghts. Replacing it with pushattack - [uppercut by doing heavy] will therefore always be inferior because of the reduced speed, unless you buff the damage of the hypothethical heavy uppercut by a lot. But at that point, you would just have reinvented the Sword & Shield, but only less powerful because it’s harder to headshot with an uppercut than with a stab…


Everything put together, I still feel your suggested changes would make the M/H&S less versatile and powerful in varying situations, because they would remove a lot of useful combos and replace them with less good ones. I can understand it’s hard to adept to new combinations when you are used to the old ones, but the more I play this Beta, the more I absolutetely feel that the new moveset is better than the old one in every way. This weapon is now able to deal with every situation where a shield needs to be useful in a very effective way, but you just need to use other combinations than the ones you’re used to. Your proposed changes to the new pushattack - L3 combo would just be regressing back to the old M/H&S, and that’s a step back since its single target capability was its biggest weakness in the first place. Your suggestion to then also replace the sweep with a heavy uppercut to keep some of the functionality of its new pushattack - L3 combo as single target damage to compensate for your regressive change to the pushattack and its follow-up would do more harm than good as well, because it removes other super useful combos this weapon can do, which are less good than the old pushattack - light - light combo in varying situations.

I’m not ideologically opposed to changes to this weapon’s moveset or something like that, especially not since this is a Beta where we get the opportunity to test stuff. But it’s just that the moveset of this weapon as it is currently (29-7-2020) is really good already! I don’t see the need to change its moves, and none of the suggestions I’ve heard so far would be beneficial in the end. If this weapon needs any more changes, it is in attack speed. If its light chain and its shield bash were just a tiny bit faster, that would go a loooong way. And it would be a way better change / buff than messing with its moveset, in any case.

1 Like

Havent read anything of the rest. But as far as software goes, at least for my Windows 10 version there is an integrated video recording software you can start/open up by pressing “Windows Key + G”. Probably not the best software but it fulfills it purpose. Clips below one minute can be uploaded to imgur.

1 Like

I use Streamlabs OBS for recording stuff. It’s main purpose is streaming, but it records just as easily and is pretty intuitive as well.

For mace/hammer and shield: I’m still attempting to like the new moveset. I’m trying rly rly hard. If the push, slam, and first two lights get that buff, especially the pause between L3 and L1, I think I’d like it. But right now I’m still missing old mace and shield.

2 Likes

I’m late to this, but it cannot cleave armour, unlike the Two Handed Hammer heavy, so it’s benefits come at a cost.

5 Likes

Given the choice, I would not exchange the push-stab - bash combo for the push - bash chain.

The former option gives you the confidence to get up close to the enemy, so you compensate for the relatively short reach of the hammer and can comfortably dance around a horde or patrol.

The push - bash combo is nice but it’s kind of just for creating space. And you already have that option with Axe + Shield.

1 Like

You can still easily do pushstab - bash by doing pushstab, blockcanceling, and then a heavy attack.

1 Like
Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu