[HANDMAIDEN] Ult is boring, not fun, and useless

Ayee, next nerf gonna be 0,5 second invis on that ult and cucks will still whiteguard it. Cmon, not so long ago it was 3 second invis and it was something, now its 2 and you mind it cool.

Truth be told, now, when fk got some rework to his kit, handmaiden is most undesirable character on cata.

Proove me wrong

Why do I need video proof if I can test it myself? The problem is that people used the skill in a vacuum there. The active skill needs some emphasis through equipment but you can reach the breakpoints of every horde enemy on Cataclysm with it:

Thread is dated due to BBB. But I think the necessary talents are back again (for the moment). Dash through a mixed horde in a tunnel and watch all Horde enemies die, leaving only the elites singled out.

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Yeah the invis is fine, it’s what I run like 90% of the time. I don’t think HM is bad, like I said she’s super good in solo stuff or clutching, but I just am not a fan of classes that rely on everything going bad to get their full value.

Plus, in true solo stuff there’s no point but the challenge and fun, and holding block all map isn’t what I call fun lol. Weave solos are a thing I guess but they’ve been a joke since the start so.

I’d honestly like her ult talents to change it up way more, to get rid of that awkwardness on non-invis dash.

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           To start I have been playing Vermintide for a very long time and I know this game is a lot different from the first one in some fundamental ways. Many of these changes, in my opinion, reward bad play styles and don't reward strategic play and synergism with the team. Too many people rely on their "Fun" ULTs at the expense of actual skill. In the beginning of Beta my cataclysm team and I talked a lot about how this sort of "Fun" play style will come in and erode what made V1 great. With all that said I accepted this and continued to play V2 while many of my V1 friends never could get into it because it lacked the spark that V1 had. I accept that people play ranged based classes and are severely lacking in melee skills, I accept that people like spamming fireball to watch things die en mass, I accept people like Salt's BH class because it makes them feel tough, but for the love of God please don't bring a solid class like handmaiden down with you.
           People are shitting on the bleed with the dash and yes it is a pittance of damage, but you are supposed to dash through A LOT OF ENEMIES not just one. When you multiply horde size with damage you start to see the benefit of this. I know that it is still not a great choice for cata in my opinion, buts that is why I choose something else. the other thing to account is the quick recharge of the ability, you can spam a the bleed almost a dozen more times then other ults bringing its total damage output far past some of the other ults. 
           Now as to the invisibility, this is what I run with, I can attest to hundreds of special kills with this one ability. Many people I know are short sided and very simple minded, but the window is more then just 2 seconds. Once you factor in the 2 seconds along with the time it takes enemies to re-target you, cover the distance to get to you, and your own dodge while aiming you actually have more then enough time to take down several gunners and flame rats.  YES I would love 3 seconds back instead of 2, but because we already lost that I sure as hell am gonna defend what I still got. Unlike all the dwarf Rangers out there I use my invisibility to maneuver and preposition myself to be in a better spot then before not just to pray that I don't get overwhelmed when it ends. 
           The other aspect that I want to cover that I haven't seen in this thread, at least not yet, is the mobility part of this class. Vermintide is not all about grouping on a ledge and SMASHING ATTACK  over and over at enemies climbing up. This class is highly mobile and tanky, not in health, but in stamina and dodge. She is meant to move, weave in and out of enemies with Wraith-Walk and cut them down before they mass and to find those globe rats and storm sorcerers. Not everyone in the team needs to be in a mosh pit of death, the game literally spawns specials because everyone is in a tight ball for too long. She is supposed to be mobile and be there to save the Zealot's ass because he bit off more then he could run from. In the case that she gets reworked on a level that is talked about in this thread you will only find more people camping in champion difficulty because they can never find a good team to go legend let alone cata. Some classes are support classes not in there healing or distracting but in their mobility. 
           This isn't so much about this class as opposed to a general problem with the player base, but this class exceeds at this the most. I tell this too a lot of people I come across when I play, "you don't have to shoot at all the specials, they can die just  fine to melee". I don't need you to risk FF and TK because there is a special. I can dash and kill two gunners faster then your brace of pistols and be a lot safer while doing it. Too many people cling to their ranged classes and abilities like its the only thing that will carry them through the game. I play this class specifically because I actually like using my melee, I like pushing myself to take on the specials in melee and to excel at it. I can solo 2 gutters and a leach and a hook rat at the same time because of this class and because I don't give myself a crutch. I don't particularly like the other classes because I feel clunky and stuck surrounded my enemies.
            This class embodies a type of player who isn't boxed in like the rest. I can carry a team because I can move I can navigate around obstacles and bosses to save people. YOU might not find it fun to play like this, to play with a strategy in mind, to not kill a chaos warrior instantly, to not spam your little crossbow with half reload speed, to not waste ammo on trash enemies, and to not flinch at the sight of specials, but others do actually enjoy it. Not every class needs an instant kill ability or another explosive crowd breaker or head shot seeker, THOSE are boring in my opinion. I might not like all the other classes and that's fine because I don't wan't them changed, I don't care, I don't need to like every class. I play them from time to time and I have my favorites out of them, but handmaiden is mine. Please take your overpowered low thought builds and leave my elf alone.  

@mr_sp1ce Today I did Garden of Morr, Cataclysm for about 70% of the map with my bots. I opened up the map to public once I got to the dug out grave area before the maze, a salt and dwarf joined and we finished the game, no the bots were not dead when they joined either, all four of us were alive when they joined in. I used to do Cataclysm solo in V1 and I have done it in this game too, and only as the handmaiden. True solo I have never done, but normal solo yes you can do cata and yes you DEFINITELY want the handmaiden on your team as a player, as a bot she sucks, but again its a testament to her high skill aspect, you have to have a human behind the wheel of this class.

I very much agree.

I mean, that’s a pretty niche use. Ults should be objectively good in most combat situations, not just “meh”. Most of the time, you’re not going to need the invisibility in order to kill blightstormers. It might help a little, but ultimately would be rather unnecessary.

Again, that’s extremely situational. It’s useful in a tough spot but ultimately doesn’t help all that much. Also, reviving in rough situations is possible for other careers too. Foot Knight can get in, start the revive, and charge out while knocking back enemies; Battle Wiz can flame walk in and out while ressing; Slayer and Zealot can both start the res and dash/jump out; Merc and Unchained can start the res and ult in the middle to knock back enemies; Ironbreaker can ult while ressing, get all the aggro and tank all the hits.

I mean, “useful” is subjective. Killing a single slave rat in a horde is indeed “useful”, but not materially so. True, a stormvermin is much more dangerous than a slave, but in general, I feel that an ult should be worth more than killing one elite.

The mobility itself is amazing.

Not every ability can be compared 1:1, you look at the whole kit and the cooldown.

Handmaidens stamina regen and dodge perks, combined with a dash on short cooldown makes her the most mobile character in the game. Whilst IB might win in raw tankiness, Handmaiden can just ‘nope’ out of any situation where that tankiness would matter.

You could say FK’s charge is better, but that is his ONLY mobility.

That said, her talents that pair with it are a bit meh. The invis allows for clutching extreme situations sure, but the other two are bland.

Battle Wizard with Volan’s Quickening and 10% cooldown reduction has an ult cooldown of 24 seconds. I’m not sure if there’s a good reason for Handmaiden to not pick Gift of Ladrielle. The other two talents are surely lacking, at least by contrast. They still would be even if it was only one second of invisibility.

I thought the cleave boost was a neat idea, but it made Handmaiden cross over into Merc territory and didn’t really make sense. Crit chance is fine, but so dull. The bleed is okay, but it’s only ever useful on high density.


Mate you linked stuff that is nearly a full year old at this point, those bugs are gone and bladedancer with just 7% power and 10% infrantry or something already wipes any horde on legend.

20% power or so and you can do it on cata too.

Health of pretty much everything doubles from legend to cata.

20% power doesn’t cut it.

+the issue with bleed, is that it doesn’t keep enemies from hitting you once you end your dash, as it’s a DoT.

As much as I prefer the Bleed, this is true. Below Cataclysm it doesn’t make much sense to chose Bleed.

Not dumping aggro on your team? Also, if you can pick of specials or evade threats by normal means, you don’t gain anything by chosing invisibility. It is safety-net for something you can without it too, albeit far more difficult.

This is an entirely different problem. For how much damage and utility BW active skill has, the cooldown is absurldy low. It could easily be doubled and it would still (or better finally) be balanced.

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20 % Chaos, 10 % Infantry and Enhanced Power and you can kill all horde (minus marauders) + Assassins on Cataclysm.

If you opt in for Focused Spirit or team buffs you can even kill Marauders. You might even skip Enhanced Power then. Would have to be tested.

Lad, you could stand to be a bit more courteous with people in your speech :slight_smile:

Calling people braindead left and right has never wielded good results


Honestly i fail to see how this is a niche use. Sure if we are going down this route you could simply walk up to a blightstormer and kill him, no need for anything special at all there right? Thing is the game does not work like this. Sometimes you simply need to deal with something fast and preferably safely and no other ultimate apart from maybe shade and huntsman allows you to pretty much kill anything unhindered.
Again i agreed the base version might be bland and probably does need something but i do not consider every 30 seconds being able to safely delete problematic specials to be useless interaction. Underwhelming? Perhaps.

It doesn’t? Then why even list the other ultimate’s with similar interaction? Sure it might not be the absolute best use for the ability which i already did described in my reply but people go down especially in higher difficulties and there are not that many abilities which can safely revive when needed. For example ironbreakers ability is on pretty hefty cooldown so its not always available in those situations, Slayer and zealot most likely need to make room before they can revive, Mercs/Unchaineds ability is also on pretty hefty cooldown compared to dash. Etc.
There is a reason why stealth abilities are considered extremely powerful in this game and safe reviving is just 1 thing.

Well obviously but its not really subjective that killing single rat is more important than killing say assasin, stormvermin or chaos warrior. You can delete a lot of problematic enemies in those 2 seconds timeframe without having to think about the “optimal” place to use it.
Example again ironbreaker, if you use that ability in a crappy spot you will not be getting it back when you need it. Sure they might be 10 times more impactful especially ironbreakers but usually the cooldown also matches it.

You can only get 20% from the charm.
25% from barrage (but no ammo sustain)
7% from enhanced power.
And a bit more from the Row 2 talent, noted.

Or does the weapon also factor in?
Is it really enough? I have a hard time seeing that ult dealing a staggered 60 damage. You also got to take into account that most of the time the enemies will still die to your teammate before most of your DoT takes effect.

Barrage is ranged weapon trait? You would have to dash with the bow in your Hand which I would call …. brave …… or stupid.

But yea, your active skill is influence by the weapon you hold the moment you activate it (with some weird deviations). So 10 % Chaos are from the melee weapon (or the bow if you really want to).

Check post #21 I think. There is a Handmaiden build for Bleed on live version. But it should currently work on BBB as well.

Depends on when, where and how you use it. On Legend or below it hasnt much effect. On Cataclysm you can a significant personal and team dps gain.

I call taht stupid since you don’t have invis, you get hit instantly.
I’m really unsure if weapon traits affect your ability damage.

Still remains an ult that lacks a massive amount of visual and audio feedback though.

Make the enemies p*ss blood as if they were in a Tarantino movie!

He’s right on this one, tho. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

+10 % Chaos is a property. And yes, weapon properties do influence the damage of your active skill. Tested extensively both on Handmaiden and Unchained.

And some active skills are also influenced by weapon traits.

But Handmaiden wants to drop aggro on teammates. How else are they supposed to die so Handmaiden gets clutch?
I jest. Don’t shoot me with a thousand Hagbanes.

I agree with Battle Wizard’s ult being up too often. It’s constant control and horde damage for free + mobility.

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