# Halberd Discussion **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Feedback\ **Created:** [August 7, 2021, 12:56pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533 "2021-08-07T12:56:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Rebel](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/rebel/32/23728_2.png) [@Rebel](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Rebel)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/21 "2021-08-07T21:26:39Z")
> [@Incandescent](#): > > Also yea I like the idea of sweep-stab-heavy sweep. Just needs to have the appropriate tweaks to y’know, yeah. Yeah, I feel you. Y’know, you feel me, I feel you. We’re kind of feeling each other here ---
**Author:** ![James](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/james/32/65945_2.png) [@James](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/James)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 9:37pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/22 "2021-08-07T21:37:53Z")
> [@Rebel](#): > > What I don’t like is how there’s zero animation delay between H1 → L2 Dunno what you mean tbh, there’s still delay, just relatively shorter. It’s not like Elf Javelin light 3 which practically does have zero delay or Rapier push \> light 1/2 tech Probably just a feel thing because H1 & l2 look similar & come from the same direction also guys stop feeling each other… …without me ---
**Author:** ![Rebel](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/rebel/32/23728_2.png) [@Rebel](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Rebel)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 9:41pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/23 "2021-08-07T21:41:21Z")
> [@James](#): > > Dunno what you mean tbh, there’s still delay, just relatively shorter. It’s probably not zero, but for me at least, it’s very noticeably shorter, and it feels very unnatural personally, when all the other attacks share the same (or similar) delay values. It’s probably most noticeable with Mace & Shield. Compare doing light attacks to then switching to Push-Attack → L3. That combo comes out at lightning speed. Or Fire Mace L1 → L2. ---
**Author:** ![James](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/james/32/65945_2.png) [@James](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/James)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 9:44pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/24 "2021-08-07T21:44:57Z")
> [@Rebel](#): > > It’s probably not zero, but for me at least, it’s very noticeably shorter It’s relatively shorter to other Halberd attacks and noticeably shorter compared to Halbard light 1 which y’know, the light poke usually follows that light sweep probably why that combo feels quick, I personally like it Note: I just wanna poke some rats, still wish for cleaving rat kebabs 😔 ---
**Author:** ![BongoSkaggs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BongoSkaggs](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/BongoSkaggs)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 10:28pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/25 "2021-08-07T22:28:16Z")
> [@Rebel](#): > > I certainly do. The weapon feels _slow_ for what it offers. The speed it has currently is not enough in my opinion. The weapon overall is honestly just a bit below average. Going to heartily disagree there. Halberd’s been powercrept by M&S, bret sword, and spear & shield, but it’s still in the upper echelons of Kruber’s arsenal in normal content. Right up in the conversation with the greatsword, xsword, and t.spear. Attack speed should only be entering the conversation if attack chains get altered, which I still believe is needless. And even then, if we’re going to talk attack speed we should first talk about how Crowd Clearer’s short duration works against 2 handed weapons and how bad Enhanced Training’s pointless “trade off” is. ---
**Author:** ![alsozara](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/alsozara/32/6944_2.png) [@alsozara](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/alsozara)\ **Post date:** [August 7, 2021, 11:08pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/26 "2021-08-07T23:08:35Z")
I mean, is it that hard for FS to literally mirror an attack animation and tweak combo timing a little? Seems like the most straightforward way to address jank. ---
**Author:** ![hgjw](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/hgjw/32/70947_2.png) [@hgjw](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/hgjw)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 12:14am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/27 "2021-08-08T00:14:19Z")
> [@Rebel](#): > > If H2 was to get elite cleave, and the entire weapon a 10-15% speed buff, then I personally don’t think light sweep should combo into heavy sweep for the sake of balance and not making the weapon overpowered. So we going back to early v2 days with that attack speed buff then? > [@alsozara](#): > > I mean, is it that hard for FS to literally mirror an attack animation and tweak combo timing a little? Seems like the most straightforward way to address jank. Well when even the basic numbers tweaks seem to be hard, you really should not expect something like that to happen easily. ---
**Author:** ![Atheosis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Atheosis](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Atheosis)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 12:18am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/28 "2021-08-08T00:18:58Z")
Huh. Halberd feels pretty good to me honestly. I don’t really get this thread. ---
**Author:** ![DVD.exe](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/dvd.exe/32/116175_2.png) [@DVD.exe](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/DVD.exe)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 3:05am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/29 "2021-08-08T03:05:15Z")
It’s been fun watching the merry-go-round of shifting opinions on this weapon as the game gets older. I do enjoy the pokes with this weapon more than other spear types. Don’t know if the hitbox is just thinner or what, but it makes getting headshots nice. About the weapon delay, never thought about it, but I feel like I do much better boss damage with Halberd pokes versus similar spear weapons because I cannot get the block canceling time right on t.spear or billhook, Halberd’s not going to randomly stop moving or push needlessly. As far as attack speed goes, 10%-15% sounds a bit much when taking properties, passives, and swift slaying into account. ---
**Author:** ![Velsix](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/velsix/32/89035_2.png) [@Velsix](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Velsix)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 3:29am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/30 "2021-08-08T03:29:35Z")
So give Heavy Sweep Tank and let it cleave armour (so Tank would stop it cleaving Chaos Warriors, since that would give it too much of an advantage over Exec) and either flip the heavy sweep or change its position in the chain is the general opinion then? I think a minor increase to the Heavy Sweep’s infantry damage would be in line if it was moved, as otherwise just focusing elites down might be a tad too optimal to make the Heavy Sweep properly useful outside of clutching/proccing Paced Strikes. Is it a little weird that the Halberd’s Heavy Stab does both less armour damage and more infantry damage than the Sword & Shield’s Heavy Stab or is it a realism thing I’m unaware of? Same thing with the Halberd’s Light Stab and S&S’s Push Attack. ---
**Author:** ![alsozara](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/alsozara/32/6944_2.png) [@alsozara](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/alsozara)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 4:37am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/31 "2021-08-08T04:37:47Z")
> [@Velsix](#): > > So give Heavy Sweep Tank and let it cleave armour I like the idea, but from memory isn’t tank a little worse for cleaving infantry than linesman/heavy linesman? Just wanna point out that might nerf its pure horde cleave a little. Of course that could be fixed by tweaking heavy 1’s cleave upwards a little. ---
**Author:** ![Velsix](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/velsix/32/89035_2.png) [@Velsix](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Velsix)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 5:00am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/32 "2021-08-08T05:00:08Z")
From looking at Bestiary Tank is worse vs weaker infantry like Skavenslaves, Ungors and Fanatics as well as Plague Monks and Ratlings/Warpfire Throwers but better than Linesmen/Heavy Linesmen for Clanrats, Gors and Marauders, and better vs Maulers, Bestigors and Savages. For example, Exec lights which have Tank can hit 3 Savages but only 2 Plague Monks. ---
**Author:** ![Radina.Shevu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@Radina.Shevu](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Radina.Shevu)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 12:24pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/33 "2021-08-08T12:24:25Z")
> [@DVD.exe](#): > > As far as attack speed goes, 10%-15% sounds a bit much when taking properties, passives, and swift slaying into account. 15% more attack speed would put the l1 to the value of the glaive. Halberd l1 has the same values as glaive l1. Its just “slightly” slower. I didnt read anything about elgi polearm thing swinging too fast, ever. ---
**Author:** ![hgjw](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/hgjw/32/70947_2.png) [@hgjw](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/hgjw)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/34 "2021-08-08T15:43:04Z")
> [@Radina.Shevu](#): > > 15% more attack speed would put the l1 to the value of the glaive. Halberd l1 has the same values as glaive l1. Its just “slightly” slower. I didnt read anything about elgi polearm thing swinging too fast, ever. Then again halberd got a attack speed nerf in the past because it was pretty busted, 15 % increase would be pretty much reverting that and keeping the damage increase buffs intact. Even just 5 % would be pretty good general feel increase, add to that potential attack order or animation changes, which I think would benefit the weapon more than just making every attack faster. ---
**Author:** ![Rebel](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/rebel/32/23728_2.png) [@Rebel](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Rebel)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 4:07pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/35 "2021-08-08T16:07:43Z")
I feel like what I wanted to get at with this topic got a little bit sidetracked, so let me reiterate. My point isn’t about making the weapon stronger. That’s a completely secondary topic for me. The main thing I want to get at is to make the weapon flow and feel more natural with its combos and speed. So let me ask a few questions. 1. Do you think that the low animation delay between H1 → L2 stabs feel good, bad, or don’t care? Would you then also say that Mace & Shield is fine and proper with its 0 animation delay between Push-Attack → L3 combo? 2. Do you think the repeated cleave animations with L1 → H2 sweeps look good, bad or don’t care? Would you be fine if executioner sweeps all swung from the same side? What about if it was billhook that was like that? 3. Do you think the Halberd feels too slow, especially for what it offers? These are my points. And because of some changes that could be made to fix these issues (in my opinion, at least, these are major issues for me), then it’d be necessary to change up the combos a little bit. If H2 sweep was to get elite cleave, then for balance sake I don’t think it should combo off of L1 sweep, even if the animations got improved, because I don’t think Halberd should have such strong horde clear and control. > [@hgjw](#): > > Then again halberd got a attack speed nerf in the past because it was pretty busted, 15 % increase would be pretty much reverting that and keeping the damage increase buffs intact. You think Halberd with 10-15% attack speed buff would become meta like Mace & Sword then? 15% is certainly a big buff, but 10% is really just moderate. It certainly doesn’t have what it takes to become meta just from a 10% buff. Question is, would you be more fine if it got different attack speed buffs for different parts of the weapon? L1 sweep could get 5% AS buff, H2 sweep could get 15%, and all the other attacks would get 10%. Do you think that’d make it busted/OP? I think it would definitely make the weapon strong, more in line with something like Greatsword (which is, in my opinion, the strongest non-OP Mercenary weapon), but definitely not busted. This is with my proposed attack chain changes as well. ---
**Author:** ![hgjw](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/hgjw/32/70947_2.png) [@hgjw](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/hgjw)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 4:13pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/36 "2021-08-08T16:13:20Z")
> [@Rebel](#): > > You think Halberd with 10-15% attack speed buff would become meta like Mace & Sword then? 15% is certainly a big buff, but 10% is really just moderate. It certainly doesn’t have what it takes to become meta just from a 10% buff. Meta? No. Do I think it needs that much attack speed? No. I also think this is classic example of powercreep which you for one tend to be against usually so i find it little bit odd. > [@Rebel](#): > > Question is, would you be more fine if it got different attack speed buffs for different parts of the weapon? L1 sweep could get 5% AS buff, H2 sweep could get 15%, and all the other attacks would get 10%. Do you think that’d make it busted/OP? This is totally different topic and it depends on the attack so I would not outright say no. ---
**Author:** ![Incandescent](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/incandescent/32/25285_2.png) [@Incandescent](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Incandescent)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 4:17pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/37 "2021-08-08T16:17:37Z")
> [@Velsix](#): > > or is it a realism thing I’m unaware of? definitely not, it’s just different damage profile things because…reasons ---
**Author:** ![Rebel](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/rebel/32/23728_2.png) [@Rebel](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Rebel)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 4:27pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/38 "2021-08-08T16:27:32Z")
> [@hgjw](#): > > Meta? No. Do I think it needs that much attack speed? No. I also think this is classic example of powercreep which you for one tend to be against usually so i find it little bit odd. It’s not power creep to buff weapons by itself. I think power creep is when you buff weapons to the same level of the strongest denominator. In my opinion, Halberd is a bit below average, and my suggested attack speed buff would place it more around the level of, say, Greatsword or 2h hammer. If I was to suggested buffing it to Mace & Sword levels, then that’d be power creep. And like you yourself just said, you don’t think it’d put it in meta tier. And this is partly to counteract the loss in DPS from losing L1 → H2 sweep combo and higher animation delay between H1 → L2. I mean, I’d be content with even just a 5% attack speed buff. ---
**Author:** ![James](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/james/32/65945_2.png) [@James](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/James)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 4:55pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/39 "2021-08-08T16:55:11Z")
I’m not too fussed if it’s “below average” as it feels good to use just want the sweep combo to be more worthwhile some heavy move tech like Bretonnian Longsword would feel good and I’d for sure incorporate more heavies into regular play ---
**Author:** ![Radina.Shevu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/aeb1de/32.png) [@Radina.Shevu](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Radina.Shevu)\ **Post date:** [August 8, 2021, 10:14pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533/40 "2021-08-08T22:14:02Z")
It doesnt feel good to use. It has lots of redundant combos that only see the light in weird situations. The base attackspeed is so low that you have to push between each single attack to not get swamped. Ontop of that some combos just look weird, like l1h2 being the same strike from the same direction twice in a row, or the two chops you get from push attack into l3. Its damage profile, stagger, attack angle, and not existing mobility dont feel exactly feel great when paired with the slow attack speed. [Previous page](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/halberd-discussion/46533.md?page=3)