Halberd cleave bugs

Its a invisible weapon trait that lets some attacks literally glide over armor encountered during a swing and keep going. I think krubers greatsword is the best example of it.

Elf greatsword meanwhile is an example to the contrary.

I always assumed that was Heavy Linesman cleaving

Armour sliding is the modifier that lets you continue cleaving with melee after hitting Armour, super-armour or monster units. Hit mass modifiers like heavy linesman have nothing to do with it.

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Aight I see the slide_armour_hit = true in the GS’s heavies code.
Why bother putting a Heavy Linesman without armour sliding then ? The only difference between Linesman and Heavy Linesman is on SVs, CWs, Ratling gunners and Warpfire throwers, all of which are armoured - I don’t get the point of dissociating armour sliding and Heavy Linesman…

Well to be fair, anything would probably help.

Heavy linesman still does help with hordes a lot.

Linesman would do the same, as it does on the lights, since apparently without armour sliding Heavy Linesman is no different

Yeah they do the same thing, heavy linesman just does it better, doesnt it?

Then there´s the tank modifier which does it the best.

No, not exactly.
I’d argue Heavy Linesman is the best, provided you do get armour sliding. Without it, it’s the same as Linesman.
For weak trash (fanatics and slave rats), linesman (and heavy linesman) > tank.
For medium enemies (clanrats, raiders, savages, maulers) tank > linesman (and heavy linesman)
Plague monks have linesman & heavy linesman reduction but no tank, so linesman and heavy linesman are better for them.
SVs have only Heavy Linesman and Tank but no linesman, so linesman is useless and both others are equally good.
Chaos Warriors have no linesman, good heavy linesman and actually make tank terribly terrible. CW mass against tank is 200.

You should install the Bestiary mod (now called Vermitannica) and check the values there.
Also recommend the Armoury mod for weapon attack properties.

Huh, so units have inbuilt resistances, or rather the modifiers are sorta randomly more or less effective? Well darn i had no idea. And I do use the armory mod but far as i can tell it doesnt offer detailed explanations like what linesman does for instance.

…Fatshark could probably have saved themselves a few headaches if they just made the modifiers work on a scale like linesman<heavy<Tank or something.

But thank you for the info, i skipped the bestiary mod before but i will give it a second look.

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ok so to clarify:

in the mod the sweep has heavy linesman and armour sliding, it worked pretty well. If FS doesn’t want armour sliding on the sweep then they should just swap the modifier to tank and call it a day.

Idk what went wrong with the implementation in the official patch but it’s definitely not functioning as it does in the mod.

I suspect it might have been deliberate, perhaps a concern that it´d been too strong. But in the present day cata where chaos hordes got raiders/maulers and beastmen got bestigors in their waves that armor gliding is pretty essentially for a cleaving attack to function well at all.

Skaven hordes can be handled from my experiences today but chaos and beastmen hordes were really rough.

And I had no idea raiders/maulers bodies had the unit mass of armored targets despite being nearly naked but since they do then what i thought was a bug is not a bug. Just weird balance that i´d protest.

then they should’ve swapped the modifier to tank :upside_down_face:

ah well w/e as long as it gets fixed in one way or another.

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Perhaps I can clear up the issue. Armor pulls information directly from the code. The stab is considered H2 in the code. When we put in the code to make H2 become H1, we didn’t rename the attack or anything like that. All we did was change the attack chain inputs so now it comes first. So as far as armory is concerned, heavy one is actually heavy two and vise versa. The attack profiles are all correct in game and heavy linesman mass modifier works correctly on the sweep attack. The only thing missing is a line of code that basically says armor_sliding = true.

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Yeah sadly no armour sliding makes the halberd heavies feel kind of redundant. In the mod you actually had good reason to do the light heavy rotation but in the live version sadly I think it still boils down to light block cancel the weapon, which is pretty sad. Loved the modded version but haven’t returned to the weapon in live since that change killed it a bit for me.

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I believe the Armory mod stats for the Halberd heavies have been wrong since the last BBB. (H1 and H2 have been interchanged with each other.) The image on the Reddit armory page has been edited to reflect the correct stats.

From Weapon changes from 2020 Summer BBB:

Halberd

  • Dodge Multiplier: 0.95 → 1
  • Heavy 2 → Heavy 1
  • Heavy 1 → Heavy 2
  • Hit Mass
Attack Hit Mass
Heavy 2 None → Heavy Linesman

So, me and my brother have come to the same conclusions as this thread has come to finally:

Some weapons have got a special modifier on some attacks, allowing them to cleave through armor (i.e. greatsword and dual swords and great hammer ).

Halberd has got the correct damage profiles for H1 and H2, they are just displayed the other way around in the armory. (H1 in the armory is the sweep and H2 is the stab, but when executing H1 is the stab and H2 the sweep.) All good there thus.

However, the halberd heavy sweep has no armor sliding, which could be the bug here (or a deliberate design choice by fatshark, in which case this thread would be closed).
This also makes Heavy Linesman redundant, since linesman would result in exactly the same behavior (since it has no armor sliding, right?)

As a long-time halberd main I think the heavy sweep deserves armor sliding. It has low enough armor damage to not become a problem (or lower it by some if need be) but without it, there is little reason to use it over L1 and a long animation heavy sweep needs some reward for using it.

This would be a nice halberd buff, but it would still have enough weak spots to be balanced imo: In high pressure situations, the low stamina and the slow weapon animations make it a dangerous choice, while it also has rather difficult combos, that need to be chosen and performed correctly regarding each situation.

The addition of armor slicing would make it better for mixed hordes though and seriously, who would look at a halberd, see it swinging around and not expect it to cleave through enemies (especially compared to the dual swords for example)

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I had a guide about how exactly cleave works in this game, if you have interest you can read it here. :slight_smile:

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Wait the thread got “acknowledged” despite not really being a bug. I wonder what that even means in this case lol.

…I shoulda updated the main post is what, probably.

That and Julia probably also fell for the same reasoning holes that i did x)

I mean there are a few things here that could be called bugs.

  • The naming of heavy 1 & 2
  • Having Heavy Linesman with no armour sliding which makes it the same thing as linesman in practice just more confusing

If I’m being really hopeful maybe removing armour sliding from the heavy sweep was a mistake :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

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