# Goodbye Grievious Wounds **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [September 24, 2026, 6:17am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848 "2026-09-24T06:17:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Septia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/839c29/32.png) [@Septia](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Septia)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 6:17am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/1 "2026-09-24T06:17:40Z")
I’m probably in the far minority, but I loved Grievous wounds. Good old reliable stagger with relic blades vs crushers made fighting packs of them a little bit easier. Was also funny hitting the little shield guys after you broke their shield and watching them stuntman dive 8 feet to the side. I forgive you though Fatshark, for I have seen the new Zealot tree layout. Happy to help early play test it if you want, I don’t even charge!!! ---
**Author:** ![JanZamoysky](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/janzamoysky/32/87926_2.png) [@JanZamoysky](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/JanZamoysky)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 8:04am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/2 "2026-09-24T08:04:34Z")
This also means removal of guaranteed stagger on headshots with Evi and Chain axe heavy special, without any extra Strength stacks. Chain Axes should be fine, as you can always get some quick Headtaker stacks or use Thrust stacks, but Evi is a bit harder to use now. ---
**Author:** ![alsozara](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/alsozara/32/6944_2.png) [@alsozara](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/alsozara)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 8:50am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/3 "2026-09-24T08:50:57Z")
Not that I dislike the new tree overall, but it really is so weird to me that they’ve decided Zealot gets zero impact bonuses in their tree. Not even indirectly through power increases! Yeah the guy with a variety of two handed weapons, including a damn giant hammer, not to mention the crusher, apparently doesn’t get to spec into CC through their tree. Maybe we can stretch the identity a bit beyond melee attack speed, agile, and death resist? Like I’d be tempted to try out shock and awe T Hammer again after this patch, but if I can’t reliably stagger the extra stuff I’m cleaving, really what’s the point? Maybe at least put punishment back in instead of this rather uninspiring addition: ![Screenshot_2026-09-24-18-49-45-25_e4424258c8b8649f6e67d283a50a2cbc](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/fatshark/original/3X/1/a/1afc1de492d8bede7f41005f25468dc42d8be942.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![JanZamoysky](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/janzamoysky/32/87926_2.png) [@JanZamoysky](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/JanZamoysky)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 9:02am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/4 "2026-09-24T09:02:35Z")
> [@alsozara](#): > > Not that I dislike the new tree overall, but it really is so weird to me that they’ve decided Zealot gets zero impact bonuses in their tree. Not even indirectly through power increases! A while back I pointed how multiple Havoc difficulty modifiers invalidate Stagger as a CORE game mechanic. I doubt I was the only one to notice this isn’t healthy for the game. Instead of rethinking those decisions, we are getting stagger / impact talents removed from the game. Very curious priorities. > [@alsozara](#): > > Like I’d be tempted to try out shock and awe T Hammer again after this patch, but if I can’t reliably stagger the extra stuff I’m cleaving, really what’s the point? Stagger? Cleave? \*\* cue music\*\* “Yup thats me, you probably wonder how i got here. I’m just another cultist trash mob, but I just ignored my EXISTING stagger state to take a blue stim, just to ruin the players day further”. ---
**Author:** ![carebus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9a28c/32.png) [@carebus](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/carebus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 9:53am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/5 "2026-09-24T09:53:43Z")
> [@JanZamoysky](#): > > A while back I pointed how multiple Havoc difficulty modifiers invalidate Stagger as a CORE game mechanic. I doubt I was the only one to notice this isn’t healthy for the game. Instead of rethinking those decisions, we are getting stagger / impact talents removed from the game. Very curious priorities. talents that give some weapons stagger and cleave that weren’t intended in their original design are an easy way to make weapons “meta”. the devs’ plot is clear: want stagger, take the crusher; want cleave, take the relic; want a one-shot, go Hammer Time. It’s fun to have a relic with cleave, stagger and one-shot capabilities, but it’s not fair, as I see it. and of course, there’s a difference between a talent from the tree and a weapon blessings. With blessings, you sacrifice some of the weapon’s efficiency to smooth out its flaws. With the tree, you just add on top of everything, with no trade-off. so I’d prefer to have no cleave or stagger modifiers in trees at all, for any class. i still remember ogryns with the Mk III club that had colossal stagger, cleave and damage all in one package. ---
**Author:** ![Gideon404](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/gideon404/32/96699_2.png) [@Gideon404](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Gideon404)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 10:01am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/6 "2026-09-24T10:01:08Z")
Equally, hit mass buffs in havoc put those carefully tuned cleave breakpoints in the bin and divide the world into infinite cleave and “junk”. ---
**Author:** ![carebus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9a28c/32.png) [@carebus](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/carebus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 10:25am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/7 "2026-09-24T10:25:44Z")
Yes. but it’s a problem of a different kind and could be resolved thru havok modification and even more so thru overall difficulty revision. Btw, if these talents were added to the trees as a counter to the amount of stagger and cleave needed in Havoc, then at the same time they sent the difficulty of regular missions down the drain. And for such a revision, you need more stable reference points. As I said somewhere here, DT has too many variables right now for high-quality balance corrections. ---
**Author:** ![camsmith1453](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8491ac/32.png) [@camsmith1453](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/camsmith1453)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 10:48am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/8 "2026-09-24T10:48:59Z")
The fact that this talent was kept over anything Impact related certainly is a choice. Bet a lot of money GW, Punishment & Impassible were chosen more than this. ![Screenshot_20260924_063834_Samsung Browser](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/fatshark/original/3X/0/1/017e89e3a19f43e1eaa3987ba025d9a14bfe27df.jpeg) I also find it kinda funny how in all these “compensation buffs” for class stats the weapons most affected by the removal of Zealot’s impact talents, aside from the TH which finally got increased Maniac ADM, didn’t get any kind of buff to their base stagger, especially the Shock Maul & Eviscerator. ---
**Author:** ![carebus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9a28c/32.png) [@carebus](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/carebus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 11:26am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/9 "2026-09-24T11:26:17Z")
And what’s wrong? It’s anti-dog solution and no more. And a good one, btw. ---
**Author:** ![m\_warham](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/m_warham/32/117915_2.png) [@m\_warham](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/m_warham)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 11:46am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/10 "2026-09-24T11:46:33Z")
I completely agree with you, mate, and on top of that we’ve got two mandatory tax points in the form of the ‘Abolish Blasphemers’ and ‘Faithful Frenzy’ talents, although I’d swap both of them for ‘Severe Wounds’ in a heartbeat. And the ‘Unfaltering’ talent is positioned far too awkwardly. ---
**Author:** ![JanZamoysky](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/janzamoysky/32/87926_2.png) [@JanZamoysky](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/JanZamoysky)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 1:48pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/11 "2026-09-24T13:48:55Z")
> [@carebus](#): > > talents that give some weapons stagger and cleave that weren’t intended in their original design are an easy way to make weapons “meta”. Yeah, because Chain Axe and Eviscerator are considered “meta” /s 🙂 Relic blade doesn’t need stagger to be the zealot’s meta. Attacks are quick, very easy to combo, and have very good reach. You can get headshots in between dodges, without being stationary all day. This is still beside the point. It would be good to have some variety and options, which aren’t just about damage stacking. ---
**Author:** ![Vodhawak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b77776/32.png) [@Vodhawak](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Vodhawak)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 1:54pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/12 "2026-09-24T13:54:49Z")
If it happened to the Veteran the playerbase would be rioting in the streets ---
**Author:** ![JanZamoysky](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/janzamoysky/32/87926_2.png) [@JanZamoysky](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/JanZamoysky)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 2:06pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/13 "2026-09-24T14:06:05Z")
It’s fine HK “community” doesn’t play zealot 😂 ---
**Author:** ![carebus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9a28c/32.png) [@carebus](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/carebus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 2:21pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/14 "2026-09-24T14:21:47Z")
I didn’t say it works this way for every weapon, but some of them obviously got far more than others. I agree the relic doesn’t need stagger, but in the OP’s case, he’ll definitely miss it. I also agree that current blessings don’t have much variety, but I’d prefer some unique quirks over plain buffs. Blessings could be a good way to build around. ---
**Author:** ![Reginald](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/reginald/32/63707_2.png) [@Reginald](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Reginald)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 2:29pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/15 "2026-09-24T14:29:06Z")
Its not like it has to be gone forever. We can always ask for it back. Find some nodes on the tree that you think you’d rather replace with Grevious Wounds. ---
**Author:** ![Enforest](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/enforest/32/73699_2.png) [@Enforest](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Enforest)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 2:30pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/16 "2026-09-24T14:30:58Z")
> [@Reginald](#): > > Find some nodes on the tree that you think you’d rather replace with Grevious Wounds. Master’s Retribution ---
**Author:** ![carebus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9a28c/32.png) [@carebus](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/carebus)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 3:02pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/17 "2026-09-24T15:02:47Z")
Of course the guy with a dog in his profile picture is asking to remove the anti-dog talent. Nothing new ---
**Author:** ![ZoroDaOtter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/f475e1/32.png) [@ZoroDaOtter](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/ZoroDaOtter)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 3:15pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/18 "2026-09-24T15:15:12Z")
Knife punch will also no longer stagger Ragers with one hit. > [@Reginald](#): > > Its not like it has to be gone forever. We can always ask for it back. I want Impassable back. I found it to be one of the best defense talent in the game. > [@camsmith1453](#): > > The fact that this talent was kept over anything Impact related certainly is a choice. Bet a lot of money GW, Punishment & Impassible were chosen more than this. I’ve got nothing but a gut feeling to back it up, but it feels like FS just chose the least taken talents and removed them. ---
**Author:** ![BongoSkaggs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BongoSkaggs](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/BongoSkaggs)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 3:26pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/19 "2026-09-24T15:26:47Z")
> [@m\_warham](#): > > we’ve got two mandatory tax points in the form of the ‘Abolish Blasphemers’ and ‘Faithful Frenzy’ talents, although I’d swap both of them for ‘Severe Wounds’ in a heartbeat. Elite damage, attack speed, and movement speed are taxes now? ---
**Author:** ![JanZamoysky](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/janzamoysky/32/87926_2.png) [@JanZamoysky](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/JanZamoysky)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2026, 3:28pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848/20 "2026-09-24T15:28:02Z")
> [@Reginald](#): > > Find some nodes on the tree that you think you’d rather replace with Grevious Wounds. Why not more options? It’s a matter of putting those talents back as optional “leaves” on the talent tree. [Next page](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/goodbye-grievious-wounds/125848.md?page=2)