Future Subclass Suggestions

Just thinking about future subclasses. I think an Engineer for Bardin that crosses his bomb build on ranger with drakefire weapons would work pretty well. Premise that a relative was an Engineer, and as a hobby between missions he’s been tinkering, except now something he’s built actually works. There’s already a line in game I believe that is something along the lines of “A bomb! Just like cousin okri used to make.” An active ability to deploy an automated turret or ring of mines would be great. Dialogue options would be amazing here, with teammates teasing him about “Something you made works? It really is the end times.” or how it’s just as likely to blow up as the skaven technology, or if he shoots a teammate might go “Sorry, don’t know exactly how this works yet, I was drunk when I built it.” and the incredulous reactions from teammates. Etc.

For Saltzpyre, definitely a warrior priest. Divine magic is one of the few options for a new caster that is both allowed in the empire, and is something that could be acquired right away rather than having to study it for a lifetime. Slow heavy melee weapons build up a resource called “Divine Fury” which works like the opposite of overcharge. It is used to charge up and cast Battle Prayers, which are ranged weapons (game model would be a holy tome or prayer book) - things like a pillar of white fire or a cone damage/knockback. Talents to grant “Soulfire” when at full Righteous Fury, which offers buffs like crit, self health regen, damage dealt, etc. An alternative talent spec make a fully charging a battle prayer while you have the Soulfire buff add support effects, such as increased stagger to enemies, damage taken by enemies, or temp health to allies hit by the effect. Which would then consume the resource, and you’d have to switch back to melee to build it back up. So you have ranged, but in both specs, would only use it sparingly. Active ability would be temp health, enemy stagger, and rez downed allies. Bascially a copy from Merc, but with a larger radius and longer cooldown, and different visual effect.

And for Sienna, not really much in the way of lores of magic that she could learn and still be part of the Ubersreik 5. Not to mention it takes a lifetime of study, so its not something she could just pick up without changing basically her whole life story. And while corruption would add new abilities, again, couldn’t really be part of the group then. So. What about a defensive, sort of ranged support tank. A weapon that conjures a shield or wall of fire that blocks projectiles, gas, warpfire, and you can move the fire with RMB. Contact with the fire deals damage and ignites an enemy, sort of like beam staff. All contact, including blocking, generates overcharge. F is a smoke screen, similar to Bardin’s smoke bomb. Talents to make enemies choke on the ashes similar to the hagbane effect, clear overcharge, or generate temp HP for allies in its radius.

For Kerillian - She’s exonerated for her work in the weaves, and is welcomed back into Athel Loren, she links her mind to the forest, and becomes a Darkweaver. (Offensive form of Spellslinger hero.) This one is a bit of a stretch. But its a wood elf career, so its already less of a stretch than Grail Knight lol. Its a form of magic she could gain quickly, and is significantly less likely to make Saltzpyre murderous than the Dark Elf’s Sorceress career, or a corrupted Sienna. Lots of potential here, but it’d play up the shadow aspect of shade with the ranged damage aspect of Waystalker. Sort of like if Huntsman were a caster, but more mobile. Conveniently, this is a form of magic where overcharge works pretty much the same as it would for Sienna.

Just me who are getting Overwatch flashbacks everytime I read a automated turret suggestion for Bardin? :slight_smile:

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The 2008 Warhammer MMO, while not a canon source of lore, was the most popular warhammer game of that decade. Pretty much until VT1 came out in 2015, really.

Mythic Entertainment (with GW’s approval) did a great job bringing a dwarven engineer to life. The automated turret was a big part of that, and its been copied in Warhammer Chaosbane and Warhammer Total War. So for the modern iteration of a Dwarven Engineer, a signature ability of theirs is a turret. If anything, Overwatch got the idea from Warhammer. :slightly_smiling_face:

For application in VT2 it doesn’t even need to have the bot’s aim AI. Just shoot in the direction it is deployed in for X seconds. Could even be a flame turret, to guard the Engineer’s back at a shorter range.

What, in Total War Warhammer? Where? I nearly only play dwarfs and I have not seen an automated turret anywhere in that game :thinking:

As long we dont get any wierd animation where he builds the turret on the spot… And I guess he has to pick it up, get ammo for it etc

Anyway, a turret, in my opinion, is going to feel like a Torbjörn ”ripoff” on some way. (Again, my opinion)

The implementation in Warhammer: Chaosbane is an automated turret, pretty much copy/paste from Warhammer: Age of Reckoning. In Total War, the way they modified it to fit their mechanics is the Master Engineer entrenchment + siege weapon buff. Since units don’t spawn new units, and its on a larger scale of warfare. Less direct than Chaosbane admittedly, but still would say its an inspired application. :sweat_smile:

The thing is that dwarven engineers had a signature turret long before Overwatch was made. Torbjörn is the ripoff of the original. Warhammer Fantasy is about 40 years old. Most modern fantasy has pulled from or been inspired by the standard that Games Workshop set, and the world they created. Blizzard originally even wanted to make a Warhammer RTS, but GW denied them the rights so they instead made the Warcraft games, which later grew into World of Warcraft. Overwatch pulls from Warhammer a lot, like just WoW did.

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Well, units can spawn units in Total War. Ever seen Krell running around or lore of beast summons for example.

No need to school me on Warhammer, bought my first Warhammer mini about 25 years ago or something like that :wink:

Touche, sir.

Though I would say that no little turret an engineer might make would be comparable to the might of Krell. I would say that a turret is more of a small scale thing, like a single gunner, where gunners of that capability come as regiments in Total War. So from a design standpoint - deploying say, 50 turrets, to make something comparable would be a bit much. And having one automated turret that is the strength of say a siege weapon as an ability would be too much for the engineer to deploy quickly on the spot. So they let him Entrench and buff siege weapons, instead.

Well, would love to see Engineer-Bardin (or Runesmith Bardin), but still not buying the turret thing, setting up a turret and getting it going would take a while, so the other option is it popping up and then we have magic-engineer-Bardin.

And autoaim on the turret? Magic? Or just fire down a line (that would be fine), but for how long? Does it need refill of ammo?

I have more questions, but it is late here in Sweden and I do need my sleep. :slight_smile:

Edit: Not saying your ideas are bad, I really enjoy reading other peoples thoughts on coming things, but I also like to discuss it :slight_smile:

I’d be keen on a rune lord bardy boi

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New ideas always need some healthy discussion to flesh them out! :grinning:

I think that if a turret were to be implemented, for FS mechanics without bot aiming, there’s two ways it could work. 1 is that they are ranged weapons. I’ll use the drakegun as an example. Holding RMB deploys the Drakegun on a little mounted stand with a gear mechanism, facing whatever direction Bardin is facing.

Then Bardin can press LMB to fire the drakegun, releasing a gout of flame from it, in whatever direction it is set up. F is a pistol or rifle shot that is basically a copy of Bounty Hunter’s, but dwarven in style. MUCH weaker, but much faster cooldown, perhaps even with talents for instant CD in certain circumstances. So that’s his ranged weapon essentially. His ammo is used to deploy the turret, and collecting his turret would restore ammo, similar to how collecting an axe restores ammo. But without the Thor recall. In this way, Bardin could fire the turret and his pistol in different directions, to cover multiple angles. This would open the door for multiple types of turret possibilities.

The other way it works, and probably easier for Fatshark, is if F deploys a drakegun turret. Same appearance as above in that its basically just a drakegun mounted on a stand with a little gear. And it just puts out the battle wizard’s trail of fire effect. So you have that wall of fire deployed in whatever direction bardin was facing. Lasts 10 seconds, but deals more damage, short cooldown. Last talent row is 50% duration, restores 35% max ammo when it ends, or increased height so it could protect you from an assassin pounce. But in this way, bardin could deploy the turrent down a hallway, and then face the other direction and shoot his ranged weapon, covering both directions for a bit. Perhaps with this version, add a melee weapon that is a spanner wrench + drakefire pistol. Works like a 1h hammer + drake pistol version of saltz rapier/pistol. I think it would be best if this required you to hold F for a moment, similar to how holding F for Burning Head / TF Volley lets you aim it better.

Their passive would be something that generates a bomb, similar to the way that GK has a talent that generates a STR potion. Also a talent row for bombs, 25% chance to not consume on use, 50% radius, enemies take 20% increased damage for 10 seconds. (Copied from the equipment traits, so Engineers can have one bomb bonus from talents and one from equipment)

Cool ideas but I don’t think that a battle priest that uses magic is appropriate for saltzpyre, his witch hunting prerogative has been snubbed enough as is

I really wanted Warrior Priest for Kruber. It fit his soldier background and personality really well, and I was disappointed they went with Grail Knight. But Warrior Priest is easily one of the most popular and iconic Empire careers. To have an Order side Warhammer fantasy game set in the Empire with 20 subclasses and none of them a Warrior Priest would be a huge design flaw and missed opportunity. So Saltzpyre is what’s left to bring that to life. I agree that a Witch Hunter Captain is unlikely to become a Warrior Priest, but at the end of the day I suppose if our measurement for plausibility is Kruber being Bretonnian royalty and converting to The Lady of the Lake from Taal with no bretonnian mission overlap…there’s a pretty wide margin lol.

As far as his witch hunter prerogative being snubbed, THANK YOU! I agree and it has bothered me so much. For starters, that the pistol ult is tied to him leaving the order when that pistol is iconic of ranking Witch Hunters, :man_facepalming: but also the DLC weapons for him… With rapier/pistol being the most recognizable witch hunter weapon and starting point, how the heck do you end up with axe/falchion and billhook? They don’t fit at all. Even the 2h sword is a big stretch. Witch Hunters don’t use heavy melee weapons. Its about precision, practicality, adaptability, elegance. They need to be able to travel relatively light and fight anywhere, as they hunt people across long distances and do a lot of indoor fighting. But that’s a separate conversation. I’m probably in the minority here but it really irks me to hear Kruber calling Saltzpyre peasant and not sir because another step further from WHC feeling like a WHC.

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I like the idea of a Bardin Engineer. He could be a Sapper, which (I think) is a kind of combat engineer who deals with explosives and destroying enemy structures. There are dwarven sappers in the lore, so that would work. I have seen a turret suggested, but I had another idea:

Flashbanger - Career Ability
Using the F key throws a banger a short distance that temporarily stumbles and sets enemies on fire in a small radius around where it hit. The skill is fairly slow to charge, but each flashbanger thrown only uses up 1/3rd of the career skill bar. This allows you to throw several in quick succession when the bar is fully charged, or throw out one on a fairly regular basis. Talents for it could be the following:

Snap, Crackle, BANG
Throwing three Flashbangers on the same spot in quick succession causes a more powerful explosion.
Magnesium Powder
Enemies hit by Flashbangers are stumbled more and their shields are knocked aside.
Phosphorous Core
Flashbanger radius is increased by 25% and causes ongoing burning damages in the area where it hit for 3 seconds.

Also, here’s one of the ideas I came up with in another thread would work as one of Sapper Bardin’s passive traits:
Explosives Expert - Passive
Gunpowder and Lantern Oil barrels cannot be damaged while you are carrying them, and picking up an already fizzling barrel will defuse it. After picking up and throwing a barrel you can detonate it from a distance by aiming at it and using the weapon special key.

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How would this Engineer career be distinctive enough from Ranger Veteran? The flashbang idea is unique in its own right but also quite similar to RV’s smoke bomb; as his smoke bomb already stumbles enemies. To be fair I like your passive idea but it sounds a lot more like a perk than a passive.

Not also that but how would his weapon gameplay be any different from Ranger Veteran? When I think of a weapon a master engineer would use I think of a grudgedraker and thunder rifles…

Grimm Burloksson

But Ranger Veteran already provides ammunition and special killing to his teammates, I don’t know how the Master Engineer would be implemented differently. Perhaps he could throw a satchel charge with his F or have war machines, but then what type of a roll would he be filling in on his team.

An Engineer could work if RV was instead a Bugman’s ranger, where he throws down barrels of Bugmans and buffs and heals his allies. Then the Engineer could take on the role of RV, but I doubt that is going to happen since RV is supposed to be his cannon career.

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