Future of Loot Rats and Lohnar's Emporium

I love this idea. 11/10.

Personally, I always chase loot rats purely for the entertainment value. I can’t resist the sounds of the sweet tinkle of loot and their high-pitched ‘mine!’ cries. Have shamelessly thrown a few runs and regret nothing.

Would have to do something about Twitch mode, though.


It concerns DLC. You will retroactively earn shillings based on the DLC you already bought, since buying a DLC will now gives you shilling.


Consider me a minority but I don’t like this idea at all. The first one with the Sack Rat is far to disruptive. I don’t like gameplay elements that abuses the greed of players so that in the middle of the horde our front line scream “To death and glory!” abandoning his team, hunting for a loot rat, leading to a wipe. This is not calculated risk as not the team but single persons make the decision.

I’m especially against the idea of Tomes and Grimoires awarding Shillings. The communities obsession with Grimoires is already bad and can be considered a metagame where the curse of the Grim is warping their minds so that they cant complete a level anymore without picking it up. This behvaiour should not be further amplified leading to players rage quitting the game the moment one grim is lost. If I would be evil I would even go as far and say that actively destroying a Grim should be rewarded with Shillings as it shows the players resolve to destroy a dangerous object over the chance to get better loot. But this would lead only to more discussions and is equally not good.

I am not against more chances for Shillings. But it should be something which can only be done if the whole team agrees to it like … um … fighting an optional arena fight (boring example) aside from the main route. This fight would only trigger if every player is alive and gets there. And it should be hard enough that everytime you do it, it risks a wipe. But this would be calculated risk as everyone has to agree and not one person bringing demise to the whole team.

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Now that I think about it, there’d be another hurdle if Sack Rats were to award Shillings even intermittently. They’d need to reward everyone on the team to prevent (probably quite serious) nastiness.

While books go to anyone who’s willing to take them (and affect everyone equally), dice don’t make things difficult and affect everyone, and consumables don’t affect that much (and usually go on the basis of who needs one or has room), Shillings would affect only one person (by default, as everyone has their own account) and could be considered pretty important by some players. So if Sack Rats did drop them and they didn’t appear for everyone, either on kill, on pickup or even like Art, to be picked up by everyone separately, there’d be a major cause for nastiness and kicking.

Then, even if it was only one Shilling out of whatever the average and cheapest cosmetics cost, their value on Sack Rats would multiply in practice, up to quadruple. I’m not certain FS wants that kind of surge on gaining them.

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This sounds like a design flaw with the Sack Rat in general, regardless of them getting Shillings added to the drop table or not.

There’s always going to be some people that’ll leave the rest of the team behind in order to run after the rat in the slight chance it drops a Loot Die or something.

It was definitely just a side suggestion. Tomes and Grims should, as they always have, reward EXP and better gear first and foremost.

I’d much rather have Shillings as a drop from Sack Rats than make Books even more of a requirement to (optimally) complete maps.

Besides, there’s already players that rage quit the game if a Grim is lost, and this is even without them rewarding Shillings.

Side objectives was something that was attempted with Weaves, which ended up being very mediocre, and I doubt we’ll ever see side objectives added to the main game at all.

Plus, I feel like they’d be too disruptive myself. Let’s say you’re on The Screaming Bell and you’re trying to get your butts to the Bell ASAP but you just decide to take a detour in the middle to go fight a gauntlet of enemies. It doesn’t really flow that well, in my opinion at least.

(Not saying that looking for Tomes and Grims are less disruptive, but those have been a staple of Vermintide for a long time so I doubt they’ll be removed at all).

From what I can gather, you’re making team communication out to be the sole player here. Every problem here, Sack Rats dropping them and Tomes & Grims rewarding them, places heavy emphasis on “it’s not something the whole team has agreed to”, in comparison to implementing these side objectives, which is “something everyone has to agree to” by stepping into a pre-determined area.

What’s the problem with just, you know, communicating with the team?

Besides, it’s not like team games can’t have any individualism in them whatsoever. The core of the game should, obviously, be to play as a team, but every player should be able to make their own decisions without “everyone on the team having to agree to it”.

In my opinion at least.

Isn’t the solution to this issue quite simple?

Why not just have the Shilling drop grant everyone on the team the same amount of Shillings, just as Loot Die affects everyone on the team as well?

It is a “design flaw” of the sackrat if you want so. But there is no reason to worse this flaw even if in-game tooltips suggest otherwise. Same can be said about the Grimoires. Why risk worsening an already existing problem? But it was just an example, so we let it go that it wasnt a very well chosen one.

As for the communication aspect. I can communicate all day long. It doesnt stop the original problem. That a single person can overturn any discussion with a single action. If three people say “Nope, let it go.”, the fourth one can still scream “Teeeeeeaaammmm Wiiiiiippppppppeee” and go after the sack rat or whatever ingenious ways for more Shillings the community can think of. So communication doesnt solve the problem.

If people want more reward then it is fine and should be accompanied with more risk or even a more disruptive run. But I stay with my opinion that it should be something which has to happen in consent of all human players. And to actually force another gate on it, only if all people are alive. I mean people can still decide to ruin a run but not give them a “reason” why they did. This doesnt hinder individualism for the rest of the run in any way.

Because, as I said, it’d effectively multiply the value of those Shillings. In a full game, that Sack Rat just provided effectively quadruple the shillings as everyone got them. While there’s no real economy to upset, it could still be too valuable to miss. But again, that really depends on how easy FS wants getting Shillings to be, and how valuable a single one (or whatever you’d get from the sack) ends up being. I’m not saying it needs to be a significant hurdle, but it’s certainly something to take into consideration.

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I’m still here shaking my head at 5 red dust for one illusionless weapon…

Yeah Fatshark hasn’t done much to temper the general expectation that they will be INCREDIBLY miserly with any currency they add.

Regarding grind and pacing I have 0 expectations of something that doesn’t make us shake our heads in dismay, but I sure do hope they prove me wrong.


For this one, I remember it being that they couldn’t. Before the implementation of Okri Challenges, they weren’t tracking people’s stats/accomplishments so they had no way of retroactively rewarding players for their accomplishments. After the Okri Challenges, they started tracking all sorts of stuff.

I remember the loot box fiasco. I remember knowing that the drop rates were abysmal and that surely they were going to increase the drop rate. I held onto my boxes and cashed out when they buffed them a bunch. #Worth

No excuses for the level 35 thing. I don’t really understand that one either. Or when people had already unlocked the talent tier for their active and then they bump it to 35 so you had to get it again.

The Cataclysm one I understand, despite finding it annoying. It helps gate players so you hopefully see less people wandering into Cataclysm games who aren’t ready for it(you’re going to see this anyways but I assume it helps anyways). Legend and below just require hero power, but Cataclysm would require some sort of achievement and confirmation of skill in order to take the next leap. For existing players it’s a bit obnoxious, but for players coming up to that point, defeating the lord maps would probably be a natural progression and they wouldn’t feel this “hump” or blockade that veteran players experienced.


Yeah, or have the more minor challenges drop eg threepence or fourpence (which convert to a shilling once you have enough).

Or golden crowns for real money that you may exchange for shillings :stuck_out_tongue:


Let a man enjoy his dreams.

I’m more interested in why shillings were chosen as the currency? FS Devs teasing hedge? :joy: We actually didn’t swap from Shillings in Bermuda until the 80’s I think? Still got some old coins in the attic. But are shillings an actual currency in the empire? I would of assumed they used Marks or something…

Yes. 1 Gold Crown = 20 Silver Shillings = 240 Brass Pennies
1 Silver Shilling = 12 Brass Pennies
Shillings and Pennies are most common curency in Empire.


How much scrap for a shilling though? Oh… we can’t have that.


Don’t you worry, Arknox. They’re adding something for the scrap with the crafting overhaul. One day you will be given the opportunity to exact vengeance upon the heretical piles of scrap in your inventory!


I actually checked up on this as well. Was surprised to find that Shillings are an actual currency. Fatshark really knowing the lore on this one!

I’m still going to call them Reiksmarks just because it sounds cooler.


Yeah, you would think the Empire would use marks and thalers being based on the HRE, but Maddred is right in terms of the lore apparently. Kinda weird they use the old British Commonwealth currency (well, combined with Crowns, which are even older).

Austria did use ‘Schilling’ for a bit, but that was in the 1900s and not at the time of the HRE.

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It’s probably because Games Workshop are based in England.


Damn Brits appropriating the INDISPUTABLE GLORY of the HOLY ROMAN EMPIRE to their currency standards.

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