Full Weapon Rebalance

@Sleezy What was the thinking behind reverting the flail push attack change? I thought the triple overhead was pretty cool. Not complaining cause haven’t tried the new changes to it, but curious about the reasoning.

You can adjust hit boxes as well. If we get into it I think that’s what we’ll try to do. People complain about animation changes quite a bit.

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I liked it too, but we got a lot of complaints about animation changes and that one in particular because people were used to using it for their horde combo.

  1. a big reason we made the change to falchion was that it’s doing pretty insane armor damage already. The attack speed of the heavies is really high in comparison to other similar damage profiles (think axe heavy, mace heavy, etc.) so much that it starts doing more dps than axe falchion on armor at high headshot ratios. That’s even without the bonus crit.
  2. falchion horde damage is a lot better than elf sword on practice. In most situations, elf sword lacks the range to utilize its full cleave. This is where falchion has a beefy advantage. Falchion also has a better cleaning push attack chain.

Mace/Shield: again I agree, we just got so many complaints about animation changes that we reverted pretty much all the ones we could.

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Glad you like it!

that one took me about 4 agonizing hours to cook up, I consider it my magnum opus tbh :sweat_smile:

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@Sleezy… GREAT mod.

I would have two questions:

  • how I can play it? I subscrive to the mod and I go in modded real? Like every mod? I’m asking because it’s not between “applied” mods;

  • what about to give to Longbow a little bit of more penetration? I made a thread about it.

I suppose this is a big part of why I enjoyed falchion more than elf and it’s still far better than the falchion on official.

How about adding armour piercing to L3 for Kruber’s Mace and Bardin’s 1h Hammer?

And I think 2h Axe’s L3 sweep should be go to high cleave thing.

Can you make all the melee weapons back to normal move speed when each release of attacks?

Lol what an unadventurous bunch. Heavy attacks have always been better for hordes anyway, 9 times in 10 if I use a push attack with flail it’s because I’m trying to get to the double overhead ASAP. Thanks for explaining :slight_smile:

Regarding Elf Spear, I’d just like to point out that the aiming IS consistent - sort of. The hitbox seems to follow the path of the weapon, so that at close range the stab hits to the low right (closer to the hand holding it) and at max range it hits perfectly center. It’s a PITA to use but there’s a logic to it and you can learn to compensate if you use it enough.

Elf Greatsword - It needs to hit the 1 SV Headshot breakpoint with it’s heavy stab again. That’s really all it needs. It’s a strong defensive weapon that keeps hordes at bay, but it can’t increase it’s DPS or cleave by using heavies, the way Dual Swords can. GS Heavy 1 goes all in on a single target, and the entire weapon loses some of it’s role to do it - that attack had better be worth it or the weapon isn’t worth it either.

Greataxe - FWIW I use it as a versatile all-round Bardin weapon. Ok vs hordes, great vs elites, no glaring weak spots. If you want to keep that role it needs to keep it’s 3rd sweep and the DPS as it stands on live is fine. The only thing it needs IMO is faster charge ups on the heavy attacks, they are very slow and don’t cleave or hurt enough to be worth leaving yourself open that long. Making them faster instead of more cleave would help separate from 2h Hammer by making it a faster and more responsive weapon in general.

1h Sword - More crit + headshot damage? Melee Pyro is going to clean house if these changes ever make it to live, but I guess other people think it needs the help, so… please, continue. :stuck_out_tongue: Honestly I don’t think Sword needs buffed, I already easily carry Legend pubs with it, but if I were to make changes to it I would give it the same stab push-attack that Sw+Shield has, and link it to light 3, for a double whammy single target combo. It would also add mobility (that push attack has forward move bonus). Would be fun af. Could balance it by reducing stamina if needed.

Halberd - Love it.

I keep seeing feedback today that GA is good on official. I’ve never really seen that before today. Mathematically, it does everything worse than 2HH on official. Is the problem that the weapon feels too unsafe without the push stab chain?

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I don’t see it either. The only thing it’s slightly better at is single-target infantry DPS. At everything else: horde clear, stagger, crowd control - is way worse, and it’s equal in armor DPS.

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Yeah I don’t get it either. Its cleave is so bad it’s actively jarring. It’s terrible in live if you’re not playing Slayer, + it’s unintuitive and boring to boot.

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The biggest problem of current official version is lack of cleave on push attack and heavies. So, I really glad that you added a linesman on them.

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It’s not that it’s Good™, it’s that it’s good enough and fun to use.

Compared to 2hh, GA is faster and more responsive, better paced, but still has that 2h Weapon Punch. It’s more fun, IMO. It’s not actually inferior in any meaningful way (except in the CC category) if you use it well, since the attack speed buff a while back it’s single target dps is competitive. 2hh may be great at hordes but it’s aoe dps is quite low due to secondary target falloff. So on DPS terms GA compares fine. Not great, but fine.

It’s held back by it’s heavy attacks, which are powerful but have crap cleave and are very slow. There’s very little reason to use them. That’s why the Push Attack>L2 (or H)>L3 combo is used instead.

If the heavies had more cleave that would fix it instantly but then it would literally be a 2hh clone so I don’t suggest that route. I’d rather see them charge faster so the GA could focus on the “it’s fast and responsive (by Bardin’s standards)” route. This would make it a much stronger elite killer and buff it’s anti-horde ability just by making it easier to use in that situation.

As a side note, I’ve noticed that L>L>block cancel is optimal anti-armor DPS if you have access to a targets head, and Heavy spam is better if you don’t (eg a CW’s back). Dunno if that tells you anything useful or not, but it’s one of the things I keep in the back of my head while I’m using it. Sadly I almost never take advantage of this because CW are never alone and I can’t take the time to wind up multiple heavies.

My view on Gaxe, is that it’s ok on live for Elites and Bosses, but lacking on Hordes. The changes I suggested were mainly for SURVIVAL on Hordes and not clearing. This keeps the Weapon’s niche, while also making it less frustrating to use.

(mainly because on IB/RV you have to spam Shotgun or Flamethrower Hordes to make up for it’s lack of survival/cleave)

The AoE Cleave balances out the Elite clear, so it doesn’t become a pumped up 2H Sword. It just needs more survival for Hordes imo, so you don’t instantly become overwhelmed on IB/RV.

Hey @Sleezy. Does the Rep Pistol alt fire still have shotgun damage properties? Feels noticeably worse at killing armour compared to the left click (when both are crits). Sorry if I’m being dumb here.

Edit: never mind, just compared Armory for official and modded and I see it’s the same damage just with linesman.

Can anyone remind me why you get less than half the armour damage per bullet when using the alt fire? Besides making little sense, this thing doesn’t have enough ammo sustain to devalue bullets like that. why would I ever alt fire unless specifically using prized bounty with BH? Personally I think the bullet spray armour damage could use a slight buff, but moreso than that, if it’s possible to tighten its spread a bit (basically how it used to be with the pre 2.0 talent) that would go a long way to making it worth using.

This seems a little high, but what I think the heavies could use is a shorter wind up, one that lines up with the the revolution of the spike ball. The shortest time to release a heavy attack is after you already spin it once but the animation for the swing brings it back the opposite direction and then swings left, effectively (visually) losing all momentum. I think 20 frames earlier is when it should be releasable and then the animation start for the swing takes around another 10 frames before the swing comes out.

Great project!

May i ask what difficulty this is based upon?
Is this for all difficulties or just for cata?

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