[Footknight Vote] Streamlining Footknight feedback

Note: the option with Numb to Pain QoL buff implies starting the expiration timer after the end of charge. You have the effect during and for 3 seconds after it stops. Borked the description slightly.

The Big Balance Beta is coming to a close. A lot has been done, a lot can be done still, yet there is only so much time and resources.

If we want to see any additional changes, we should clean up after ourselves and format our feedback in a presentable manner.

I went through as many posts concerning Footknight as I could, pulling from the feedback of the following users’ threads:
Octo, dannylew8299, soul23, Pyrisius, Maetharin, Cornbane, ToLazy4Name, Adeon, disgruntledpeasant, Bioshift, Froh, Stop_Hitting_Me and myself.

The aim is to compile the list of remaining Footknight plights and give the democratic process a shot.

Long time Footknight mains and players who only played Footknight during the tutorial are welcome alike, but I implore you to vote not for the sake of buffs, but for the sake of balance.

In general, there are a lot of things that can be done, from completely new Talents to row overhauls, but let’s take the current iteration as a base and work from there, and propose something that can be realistically introduced into the game before the current Beta ends.

On the agenda:
1. Footknight’s identity.

  • Footknight’s playstyle is defined by row 10 and supported by row 20, 25 and 30. His design is not as offensive as Unchained or Zealot, but more aggresive than Ironbreaker, and he could use a passive perk to reflect that, making his weapons feel different at baseline instead of fully relying on row 10, not unlike Mercenary’s cleave & crit and Grail Knight’s single target damage bonus.
  • Tweaking his Damage Reduction to apply from a singular source, it being his aura or his perk, allows to mitigate Damage Reduction loss after the rework, however small, and further allows to streamline Talents like Taal’s Champion/Tag Team.

2. Defining playstyles.
Pre-BBB Footknight had a selection for several playstyles, at the beginning of BBB he was revised for a strict tank role, after that his Talents were reshuffled for a compromise.
There are two topics still revolving around row 10:

  • Cooldown Decrease on staggering Elites: should it be changed in a way that allows to use it in conjunction with row 25 utility, or is having a strong, dividing, yet confining choice in row 25 a good thing? If so, how do we achieve it?
  • Should row 10 receive tweaks in conjunction with the new Stagger Power passive, or in conjunction with returning Cooldown Decrease on staggering Elites to row 10?

3. Protective Presence and you.

  • Does Rock of the Reikland have it’s place, or should it be reworked, passing it’s benefit as a personal buff to row 25?
  • Does Taal’s Champion fullfill it’s role, or should it be toned down in order to allow Kruber to retain his personal Damage Reduction?

4. Counter-Punch and co.
Pre-BBB, Counter-Punch was nerfed due to overperforming. In reality two other Talents weren’t competetive, and Counter-Punch still remained the only real choice. With the introduction of the new utility, it’s comparatively evident that Counter-Punch nerf was unneccesary.

  • Is the new Charge Reset too good or too spammy? If not, should we bring the other utility on par with it? If yes, how do we tweak it? Should it receive a small internal cooldown or more specific trigger condition?
  • Should Counter-Punch be restored to it’s initial state, buffed further to compete with Charge Reset, or should it be reinforced with tangential utility like Block Cost Reduction or Push Angle?
  • If Stagger Cooldown Decrease is reshuffled, should Crowd Clearer be swapped with it’s place, or should another Talent be introduced?

5. Valiant Charge.
Wide Charge became the single defining ability for Footknight, not only overshadowing it’s counterparts, but defining his role on higher level difficulties.

  • Should Wide Charge become innate, introducing another Talent or bring back Trample in it’s place? Should Wide Charge be nerfed? Should Numb to Pain and Bull of Ostland! be buffed to it’s level? Should Wide Charge’s utility be split across the whole row?

The poll is multiple-choice.

General:

  • Fine as is
  • Introduce an innate Stagger Power perk
  • Reshuffle Damage Reduction into a single source
  • Increase the base radius for Protective Presence

0 voters

THP generation, row 5:

  • Fine as is
  • Replace THP Cleave to THP Kill

0 voters

Playstyle, row 10:

  • Fine as is
  • Should be adjusted to compliment the introduction of a passive Stagger Power perk
  • Should be adjusted to compliment the introduction of Stagger Cooldown decrease into the row
  • Merge Have at Thee! and Crowd Clearer regardless of Stagger Cooldown decrease reshuffle

0 voters

Stagger Cooldown Decrease:

  • Fine as is
  • Swap Stagger Cooldown Decrease with Crowd Clearer
  • Merge Have at Thee! and Crowd Clearer to make space for Stagger Cooldown Decrease, putting a new Talent in it’s place
  • Introduce Stagger Cooldown Decrease as a passive perk, putting a new Talent in it’s place

0 voters

Rock of the Reikland:

  • Fine as is
  • Rework it’s utility
  • Rework it’s utility, placing it’s Block Cost Reduction onto Counter-Punch

0 voters

Tag Team:

  • Fine as is
  • Rework the utility in order to retain Kruber’s personal Damage Reduction

0 voters

Charge Reset:

  • Fine as is
  • Tone down with a small internal cooldown
  • Tone down with a stricter condition
  • Tone down with inability to proc on oneself

0 voters

Counter-Punch:

  • Fine as is.
  • Enhance to 1.5 seconds
  • Enhance to 2 seconds
  • Enhance to 3 seconds
  • Rework to incorporate Block Cost Reduction from Rock of the Reikland
  • Rework to incorporate a buff on strike, like Power/Crit Chance
  • Rework to incorporate a buff for utility, like Push Angle
  • Rework to be a static number of pushes instead of a timer

0 voters

Valiant Charge:

  • Fine as is
  • Incorporate as innate, putting a new Talent in it’s place
  • Incorporate as innate along with Numb to pain, putting two new Talents in their place
  • Incorporate a toned down version as innate, introducing limits like a certain armor density/amount, Bosses, putting a new Talent in it’s place
  • Tone down Wide Charge in terms of staggering/knockdown capabilities
  • Tone down Wide Charge in terms of width
  • Enhance Numb to Pain and Bull of Ostland! to the level of Wide Charge
  • Split Wide Charge between Numb to Pain (charge through armor) and old Trample (width/length)
  • Enhance Numb to Pain to start the invulnerability after your charge ends

0 voters

Possible row 10 replacements:

  • Bastion of the Reik - Increases maximum Health by 25%
  • Other

0 voters

Possible row 15 replacements:

  • Drillmaster - Protective Presence also increases movement speed by 5%
  • March to Glory - Protective Presence also grants +20% Healing Received and it’s radius is doubled
  • Other

0 voters

Possible row 25 replacements:

  • Regroup - Reviving party members grants them 50% Damage Reduction for 10 seconds
  • Bastion of the Reik - Increases maximum Health by 25%
  • Build Momentum - Successful charged attacks grant 40% increased Stamina Regeneration for 2 seconds
  • Other

0 voters

Possible row 30 replacements:

  • Glory Hound - Valiant Charge also grants 25% Power for 10 seconds
  • Hold Ground - Valiant Charge grants a 100% reduction to stamina block cost for 10 seconds
  • Other

0 voters

As you could notice, weapons are not included. Weapons are universal between careers, we’ll try to pinpoint the career itself specifically.

I only wish we could see more of the changes live, try them out and “yay” or “nay” them, instead of discussing what works and what doesn’t work on paper. Still, the Big Balance Beta was a pleasant surprise in the first place.

Footknight Poll 2: Streamline harder.

  • It’s still fine
  • Enhance Crowd Clearer for slightly longer duration
  • Increase Footknight’s personal DR or introduce a Talent/perk for personal survivability
  • Introduce a brawling Talent/perk along the lines of uninterruptible Heavy attacks or stun mitigation
  • Replace Bulwark with Smiter as a bandaid for the time being
  • Give Helborg’s Tutelage to Footknight instead of Mercenary. To hell with it, Helborg’s Tutelage for everyone
  • Slap Gromril Armor on Footknight. I don’t care how, just do it

0 voters

9 Likes

Row 25:

Counter Punch: Blocking an attack makes the next push free and the next attack gains x% extra power/crit chance

1 Like

General
Could you add a 5th option?
5. Increase Footknight’s Aura radius.

Row 5
1.

Row 10
2.

Row 15
2.

Row 20
2 + 3

Row 25
4 + 6 + 9

Row 30
6 + 8

Contradictory votes mean I’m OK with either option.

The poll itself is not on :stuck_out_tongue: I am just outlining what I plan to run and giving an option for people to chime in to add questions or solutions, other than that I tried to cover all bases and add every suggested solution to every proposed buff/nerf/change.

I’ll just edit it with a poll later and bump the thread when it’s time, I’ll give it like one day, maybe two, the idea is to have it up and running as the last week of the Beta starts.

As a side-note, if anyone has an idea how to properly organize it, I’d appreciate it. Never started a poll myself, so not sure if there are any particularly useful tools, whether I should limit it in some way (trust members 1 or something?) to prevent tampering or just let it fly as is.

Could you not just make a poll with multiple choices for general and each talent row? You’d probably need to have an option that says a combination of 2 choices and have people comment the exact combination of changes they want in the post you put the poll in.

"GET IN THERE!~"
The poll, that is. Or don’t. But I’d like you more if you did.

And let me know if I screwed something up in a major or not so major way.

as a footknight fan i’d like to just say that he is in a great place right now, not perfect but much better than he used to be.

I’m not against further tweaking, but i dont want to see any major overhauls for a while.

My main real grip with the new talents is with Tag Team;

its nice in concept, but its hard to actively “use”. I like the idea of a higher skillcap power with reduced personal protection, but for that skillcap to mean anything we need more control over its affects. I dont know what the solution is however, perhaps we could tag allies to choose who gets the buff?

3 Likes

Feels like I had to vote yes to most of these ideas. Most of them would be great for FK.

I mean, Footknight is in a better place than he is on live, not quite at his best in my opinion, but that’s besides the point.

The main issue for me is Wide Charge. If you don’t see it now, you will see it on Live with time when it goes through. Two things will happen:
You will either run Footknight with Wide Charge, or you will do your own thing and objectively gimp the potential of your team.
Much in the same way if you run without Double-Shotted or without Walk it Off on Live.

Sure, doable. Sure, you’re free to craft your own fun. But, as a fun sidenote, I was yelled at in voice chat to use my Walk it Off, and then had to explain that I am running On Yer Feet, Mates!.

If given time and resources, I’d like Footknight to be relatively balanced.
If given a choice between current iteration and innate Wide Charge, here and now - I will take innate Wide Charge in a heartbeat, the idea of which I hate and oppose.

Simply because, given the choice, I would rather my Row 30 choice become inconsequential than have Row 30 gimped with a single defining ability, something that we’ll live with probably for another half a year or a year.

Just to be clear what I mean:
There are a hundred and one ways to mince through crowds, Bosses, patrols and specials.
There are less than a handful abilities able to crowd control a whole Chaos Patrol, even fewer that also allow you to escape through literally any hyperdensity of any composition.

So yeah, Bull of Ostland if very powerful and satisfying. Numb to Pain is very useful on the last Drachenfels map and can save you in a pinch. They are good on a scope of one career.
Wide Charge is good on the scope of the overall game.

If you don’t see it, I can respect that. I am not omnipotent and can be wrong.

3 Likes

I just dont see this.

The attack speed bonus is so incredibly powerful, it allows footknight to mince through crowds like nothing.

Sure being able to charge through elites can be useful, but if your teammates are reliant on being saved it theyre doing something wrong. I’d much rather have a constently higher damage and CC output across a map than be able to save a badly positioned teammate now and then.

1 Like

I’d argue it has less to do with “needing to be saved” and more the proactive ability to completely nullify any threat armor might pose by flying them on their ass for the entire team. It’s not just you or a single player it saves, it’s the entire removal of that threat. The best CC is death, right? Well this is the second best CC, removing their ability to do damage to the entire team.

On the topic of changes to FK, I’d like to see Crowd Clearer upped to maybe 4 or 5 seconds. 15% AS is nice, but FK isn’t incapable of proccing SS, which is more reliable and lasts longer. Maybe I just need to git gud, but I find the buff only allows one attack to get out by the time it disappears.

1 Like

I think it’s main use was intended to run with things like 2H Hammer, allowing more leeway for heavy swings. Personally I find it more productive to just adjust and use one of the other two, but I’ve ranted about that one too many times.

I’ve made this thread with some proposals without introducing the poll, it didn’t get much traction so I launched it with whatever I had.

If the demand and supply warrants it, I’ll put an additional “Yay” or “Nay” round after the main polls for any additional tweaks people come up with.

1 Like

I doubt it will change anything at this point, but I’ll do a single mid-week bump for anyone who missed out on the whole thing and maybe is interested to participate.

I don’t know, I’d be happy to see some of the additional changes implemented even at the last day of Beta, and even though I’d be really upset if the current Wide Charge went through as is, Footknight is objectively better than he was, so at least that’s something.

Maybe the poll might be useful down the line if Fatshark decides to do additiona fixes after the fact. Maybe it won’t.

3 Likes

IB feels like playing an armored hero, FK doesn’t.
The reason is the damage ignoring passive on IB.
That’s why I rarely play FK.

Well, FK feels like playing an armored battering ram, IB feels like playing an undying raid boss with a flaming AoE attack and a button that makes him nigh invincible.
The reason is the damage ignoring passive on IB and Drakegun.
That’s why I rarely play IB.

To each their own. Zealot, Unchained and Handmaiden are defacto tanks of the other three careers. But they either translate their utility into DPS via health or Overcharge, or employ mobility and invisibility.
FK is the closest to IB because… I guess armor and shields? I am not deep on Warhammer Fantasy lore, but I get that dwarves are usually the sturdiest of the races, then there’s gromril and whatnot.

The problem with FK is that he neither brings the DPS of other tanks, nor surivability of IB. Which is, ironically, usually the design for humans. Mediocre inbetween race with some ingenuity going for it.

So it boils down to FK being the jack-of-all-trades of tanks. I personally enjoy it, FK can be built to be alright against anything sans Boss killing, but even then he can dump those into pits and rivers depending on the map.
We have enough DPS tanks, and I am alright having only one one-trick turtle.

Both of those were aimed at IB, not FK. As derogatory as I can refer to IB, I’ve come to terms with his existence. I just don’t want FK to be turned into IB.

Ehh. Maybe gromril plate should. Regular issue knight plate? I mean, it also should probably reduce your movement speed and make getting up after incapacitation or jumping a nightmare.
This is not Chivalry or Mordhau, plate armor goes as far as the game balance allows.
Would I mind bumping FK’s total DR to 30% like Ironbreaker? Not really, that wouldn’t shatter the world.
Do I want to slap gromril armor on anything that resembles a tank? Not really either.
Idk, I feel like a single Talent that halves the damage from Elites or Bosses like on Slayer would solve a lot of issues people have with FK’s personal DR, but that’s as far as I’d go.

4 Likes

FK isn’t a turtle, that’s IB. FK is a space-maker. One could argue that’s his “one trick”, but I still feel that description neither does him justice, nor is completely true.

Well, wearing plate armor should feel being invincible. If not, something went wrong.
I play IB offensively and I rarely use his ult anyway.

wouldn’t you want to ult as often as possible if you’re playing IB offensively?

Depends on the situation, but many times I just forget it. I’m not an IB main so using it differently isn’t in my mindset.

Ah, I see, my bad!

Indeed, IB could be considered way more of a “one trick” turtle. But the Beta gave him some offense talents and buffed some of his weapons so that playing more agressively became more of an option for him.

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