[FOOTKNIGHT 14 Jul]: why do you want REMOVE any TANK from your game? + AURA + general thoughts

Why do you want remove any tank from your game?

Ok, the title is a little bit exaggerated… but I can’t understand.

We made the assumption that people who wanted to play Kruber in an offensive fashion would just pick between the Mercenary and the Grail Knight

This was the right thing… I should write “in my opinion”, but numbers say what numbers say.

We have 16 careers. Among these 16 careers we have ONE ONLY pure tank.
Could we raise this number, at least, to “two”?

Someone could say: “You can still play FK as pure tank… why do you want remove variety? Now you can play him both as pure tank and aggressive tank”.

The answer is simple: if we introduce so many aggressive talents into FK’s abilities tree… we have less choice about defensive talents. If I want to play FK as pure tank, I have less choices, less builds, less variety… and, I repeat, since we have one only pure tank (on 16 careers), could we give priority to defensive choices?

I can understand some players love to play the aggressive FK… but it’s not possible make happy everyone. I would like to play Huntsman with a caliber .50 Barrett… but it would not be a good idea.

Jokes apart, this is the most important example: “thanks” aggressive talents, I can no more use both “Disable Charge Reset” and “Stagger Cooldown Decrease”… that was an incredible fun and working synergy!

And all this in order to… play the umpteenth dps crowd control career? That, even without bothering the other characters, we can do as Merc and GK.


About AURAS:

Auras (every aura from every career) should be doubled as default. You know your game. It’s not like a MMORPG where you can stack with your mates… In many circumstances the game forces you to “get away” from the group… and current auras’ size is so small that I can not even move a meter away from them to smoke a cigarette (I’m joking, irl I don’t smoke :rofl:) without lose the aura’s bonus!
For example That’s Bloody Teamwork would be really good with a doubled aura… but nope.


General thoughts about talents:

  • That’s Bloody Teamwork is useless or, anyway, the worst choice by far;
  • I can’t use both “Disable Charge Reset” and “Stagger Cooldown Decrease”… so sad;
  • Counter-punch should return to 2 seconds… currently it’s not a valuable option in this row;
  • Could we give those 3 seconds of invulnerability as default and replace Numb to Pain with “enemies hit by Charge take +20% damage for 15 seconds”?
  • Tag Team: I can’t understand because we should give up the aura… it’s what characterizes FK.
    Anyway, about this talent, I propose again what I said in another thread:

I would prefer it as a “Gromril Armour” version:
*from a side, we introduce a malus: that talent must have a cooldown (10 seconds? 13?);
*from the other side, a bonus: FK should not get damaged from that hit.
To be brief, a kind of reversed Gromril Armour: it defends your mates instead of you. We could argue about if it should cover the entire damage (that an ally would have taken) or only the 50%… but FK should NOT take any damage. He’s already pretty vulnerable as tank. At Cata or high weaves, many attacks can almost one-hit-kill him.

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Solid ideas worth considering, in my opinion

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Thanks.

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I really think this is too much. You could just Ult off the damage from stormers and the like very reliably, as well as whatever Ult talent you picked. I would much prefer auto block during Ult, so block cancelling your Ult while keeping your block up isn’t so cumbersome.

Latest patch honestly looks pretty great to me. Having to choose between generating large amounts of CD for your party or reliably having your own Ult up in nasty situations seems fair. Having both was at once previously was a little nuts. Changes to damage soak look excellent. Looking forward to trying the latest changes out.

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I disagree with your assessment that it’s now somehow impossible to play FK as a tank. Obviously I haven’t been playing extensively since the latest patch, but FK’s talent tree ad weapon selection allows you to build a perfectly good tank build. There are also options to make him halfway agressive. It looks really good to me, actually.

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Here’s to doubling auras.

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No active skill in the whole game should give invincibility or even i-frames by default. As an option it might be okay, so that you have to sacrifice something else for it.

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I don’t really understand. Foot Knight was never a pure tank. That’s Iron Breaker. Footknight is more of an off-tank/aggressive tank.

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Even an auto-block would be ok and really appreciated… but my opinion is that, considering IB has one free hit every tot seconds, wich can really save you in many circumstances, it doesn’t seem to me too much. Even because you would exploit those three seconds of invulnerability mainly to escape from gas and stormers… just to make the ult a little more safe… it’s not three seconds during wich you tank the entire world, since enemies are staggered and they can’t attack you.

Imho it would be the only way for FK to compete with IB/fulfill his duty… to have the ult almost always ready. But sure, opinions.

I didn’t say this. I said that it’s still possible play as tank, but, since there are more aggressive talents, there are less choices if I want to be a pure tank.

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Auto-block would be a lot saner, although you can do this easily yourself. Concerning the comparison with IB. Let’s ignore talents for now and just take a look at the defaults value.

  • IB has one free-hit every 20 seconds. This is nice for attacks you didnt see coming and the armor triggers automatically. However, it means nothing if six Stormvermin chop at you at the same time. You are dead. One free-hit (not one second) every 20 s. Let’s say 5 % of the run time you are invincible (despite this completely wrong, it is far less).
  • FK would have three seconds every thirty seconds. This is by mathematical means 10 % of your playtime. Additionally, the invincibility would stay for three seconds no matter how much that Chaos Patrol abuses you. They could send a literal nuke or Archaon. In those three seconds you are unkillable (unless pushed out of bonds/cliff/etc.). Only “drawback” is that it needs player thinking on when to activate which can also be considered a plus because you can use it if pressured while my Gromril’s armor has been triggered 5 seconds ago by a Hagbane.

If you don’t see the massive discrepancy between these two set-ups then I have no idea what else to say. Adding invincibility by default would be much much stronger as an IB set-up.

We could compromise that the first hit received during the charge would not cause damage. Or maybe an additional 10-20 % damage reduction just during the actual charge. Would still not sit well with me but at least better than rofl Knight.

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Are you complaining you can’t play tank in different ways, instead of having the option to be more aggressive?

I don’t know what to say to that…

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It’s not about math, but real game’s situations. IB’s Grourmil Armour literally saves your life in many situations, since in high contents one single attack can (almost) one-shot even a tank… and the game loves throw on us unpredictable attacks.

For example a silent backstab. Or an attack totally hidden among hyperdensity. A Chaos Warrior that starts a not staggerable diagonal attack while you are already “bashing” with your shield. Or you can try to stagger a group of CWs much safer, since the first hit is free.

On FK I don’t even use invulnerability and really, really, really rarely I get hit… since you stagger enemies and you can block. It just make the ults safer… it’s not something that can save you from unpredictable situations.

Then, sure, it would be really useful vs gas or stormers.

The problem is when you want to stop your charge… you have to block>charge>think about where you want stop yourself>leave the block>block again;

It’s not much intuitive.

Anyway, personally, in order to add the old Trample (weaken the enemies) I would remove Bull of Ostaland… but nope, FK is a tank that must have dps talents too… people want so.

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FK should be a pure tank, not an aggressive tank, that’s the GK job. His talents need to revolve around survivability and support.

As is the FK is a bad tank and an even worse DPS. No reason to pick him over the Merc or especially the GK

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Being a “tank” in the traditional way doesn’t make sense in this game, not to mention if you want to be a useless person and pick things that boost your ability to not kill things then you still can. This is the first time in a while that Fatshark has done the right thing with foot knight (giving him more damage) and now you want to take that away for some useless tanking crap? lmfao

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Except it does make sense, if you played cata with a good IB on your team then you know the huge difference it makes. Many times with the ib i was able to save doomed matches or carry otherwise extremly difficult games with ease. And that was all thanks to the tankiness and career ability of the IB.

So a variant of the IB is defenitly a welcome addition, FK should be more focused on tankiness and supporting the team, not damage, because even if you put all the correct talents and traits on him, he’ll still be overshadowed in terms of damage by his other carriers, so why even try making him more DPS oriented when he’s just not designed that way?

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I agree about every single word.

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IMO FK should have at least one aggressive line of talents, that leaves 2 more to choose for pure tankiness. The current beta patch does so, and IMO it´s good.

The main reason for why there should be one aggressive talent line is the simple presence of non-shielded weapons. Without the possibility to play FK more aggressively, these weapons simply aren´t viable anymore, since having a shield is just so much more viable as a tank.

Perhaps there could be one talent line for making FK a classic tank, one line for team support and one line for damage being an Off-tank.

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Isn’t that kind of doubling up on cooldown talents at the expense of other, necessary tanky talents?

It didn’t seem like an egregious change to me, even as someone who is pretty critical of the push to regen everyone’s ult talent, the row it’s on seems appropriate. I don’t see how it synergizes with instant reset, did ult stagger trigger the regen?

IB’s tankiness isn’t what makes him great, it’s his tankiness combined with his ability to actually deal damage. He can melt hordes with his fire weapons and since he has smiter he can hit good breakpoints and take down armor efficiently. Foot knight doesn’t have smiter and without power boosting abilities his damage output is pitiful.

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It does, though it’s only 0.5 second reduction per proc, so that’s not a massive synergy.

Technically it’s actually a negative synergy, since having more cooldown reduction increases the chance you already had your Ult when cooldown reset procs, wasting the talent in that instance. Regardless, the new talent layout is just plain better, with more build options overall. New aura line is super juicy and old Have at Thee has its place, since more power can also lead to stagger breakpoints, which is very in theme, and playing FK with non shield weapons should have a place.

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