Ah yes, the weaving industry. The weaving guild.


In combination with the absure attack speed levels, yes I think so too.

I do. I consider Twitch boring.

Congrats you’re alone.

It’s a great example of people adapting. But also an example of a not really perfect gamemode where in higher difficulties, people have been adapted to a really different meta despite them not really liking the challenge the most.
Btw we, the guild of weaverizers are not always cheesing and it’s still a bit more skilled than cata. So yeah I’m a bit offended (< irony).

But to come back to the topic, flinching was added to get back something that was lost from 1.6, fluidity. Therefore removing it could put you in the opposite direction, making the game sluggish again. So I’m warning you to keep the pace in mind if you want to do some changes to it. That’s kinda all.


I’ve actually played without flinch. It really doesn’t slow down pacing. You do tend to take some extra damage, but that’s something one can adapt to.


Eh, I’m not really a fan of Twitch either. It’s definitely not the traditional V2 gameplay that I like playing. Much prefer Onslaught mod since that just boosts the traditional experience up to higher levels. Twitch mode requires you to specialize heavily into monster, elite and special killing.

I mean Cataclysm might as well just be normal mode.

Not sure I agree with this. 1.6 was notoriously known to be very easy on the difficulty level, with how dodge worked. 2.0 only really toned that down while making stagger a bit more important. Without flinch, you can still push with any weapon, stagger with big 2handers and shields, while also utilizing abilities and pickups. There’s endless sources of stagger, there really isn’t any lack of it. And not all careers are focused on stagger and crowd control.


Perhaps things can be toned down, but in the early WoM beta, hitting a slave rat felt like hitting wood; nothing happened and then suddenly they fell over. It was not a good feeling.

Should armoured units flinch when hit by a dagger? Maybe not, but slave rats shouldn’t definitely react.

I’d be very carful before making widesweeping changes to these things as they might affect things you don’t initially think of (like Shade getting behind Shieldvermin via flinching).

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All low tier infantry like slaves and fanatics automatically get staggered by everything. Things would essentially only go back to how it was in 1.6, where stagger worked better in this regard. The flinch mechanic only bypasses enemy stagger resistance and makes them stagger from things they normally shouldn’t, like CW’s reacting to a 1h sword crit. Pushes, bashes, regular hits with enough stagger cleave would work the same way, the effect will mainly be felt on light finesse weapons and elite enemies.

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I’ve never seen the Rapier “flinch” a bunch of Elites constantly like the OP is claiming.

Even direct light attack headshots don’t do that.

Are we talking about a Champion level game here? I know I’m not able to do that on Legend level.

While I can’t show it in the video I want to mention that this is power level 5 Rapier.


HAHA! Hard game dude. You shoulda done CW vs swiftbow LMB, too. That one is hilarious. And people were complaining about Bill Hook special attack lol.


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1509445266 this is essentially CW’s or any elite getting smacked around by flinching.

  • Headshots and Critical Strikes now longer automatically apply a light stagger to enemies.

In 2.0 as part of the overhaul to the stagger system a feature was implemented that allowed any weapon to lightly stagger any non-monster level enemy with a headshot or critical hit. This premiered fast weapons and attackspeed where they could outshine heavier slower weapons in their crowd control capacity. This now functions the same as before patch 2.0.

Well there we go.

The post I made was foolish and short sighted. I did not understand the impacts it would have. With any luck Fatshark will revert the flinch change.

It ruins Riposte and the way I like to play in general. I replied in another thread about this in further detail: Stagger talents, crit/headshot stagger nerf, and the resulting buff to Smiter/Assassin

Without the crit push stagger Riposte has lost all defensive benefits which made it distinct from the other talents.

On top of that, it just doesn’t feel particularly good.

Players going around and staggering elites with headshots and crits was honestly not that much of a balance issue.

It’s not the only thing. For example, it makes Dual Axes bad against packs of elites without stamina spam. I really don’t think that headshot/crit stagger from light weapons was a balance issue. It required skill to stagger lock groups of elite with fast weapons, and groups of CWs weren’t lockable by a single player with a fast weapon.
All this does is place even more emphasis on speed for low stagger weapons.


Why do you think so?

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If this is the only thing which lets you reach this conclusion I would rather push for adjusting Riposte (like getting increased pushing power after bocking) instead of reverting one of the few changes which makes the game actually more challenging.

I mean I received a lot more hits yesterday as I am used too. So I think, it may have to with this (or me playing badly). But I wouldn’t like for the change to be reverted.

Like anything, it’s definitely something you get used to. I didn’t even notice the change because I removed flinch myself using a mod probably over a month ago.

What would make sense to me, is that stagger should be representative of the damage an enemy just took.

It makes no sense to stagger an enemy if he just lost 5hp/80.
If an enemy takes 55dmg and is brought to a mere 10hp from death, he just be send to the ground.

Basically damage dealt/target hp.

Makes no sense that a swiftbow headshot staggers a CW. While an exe headshot won’t even phase him.


Well I won’t. Whittling down elites with light headshots was a playstyle that I enjoyed. It’s been removed by this change due to it being impossible to do it against large packs of elites now.

I mean yeah, that was the whole point of the change, that headshots and crits ignored stagger resistance and would flinch an enemy regardless.

From an immersion perspective though… Isn’t it kind of weird to stab a ratman in the eyeball and he just has no reaction? I get it for chaos elites because nurgle, but otherwise not really a fan.

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