I’m stuck between incredibly busted and do I really need that much more dps compared to unending hunt.
I personally mainly run fervency because it does let me help pubbies in situation’s that are guaranteed to wipe without absolutely deleting everything on the screen. Example awful patrol in a tight spot.
But then again many of those situation’s can also be resolved with just unending hunt and good play so little bit torn if the added deletion power is truly as good as I think it is.
At any rate I think fervency is a lot more “braindead” talent but I also think unending hunt is pretty stupid amount of utility for class with such a high amount of damage.
Honestly it feels like this conversation should be more about how to buff I shall Judge You All, which feels like the dud of that tier. Stuff like:
Applies Witch Hunt to enemies near you while Animosity is active. (Basically a Witch Hunt Aura that moves with you.)
When you use Animosity automatically tag (and Witch-Hunt) all enemies in line of sight for double normal duration. (The tag visuals might need to be toned down for this unique case of tagging, since you can potentially tag a boatload of SV, CW, specials all at once).
I see your point with the ranged crits, ally crits and the SV patrol, but vs a Chaos Pat Fervency comes out on top. That’s potentially 6 CWs kills with something like the Rapier. Unending Hunt requires light spam to get a good amount of crits, which is ineffective against CWs. Fervency lets WHC use charged attacks and consistently get value. If you’re team doesn’t have finesse weapons, or if any players go down/any have to focus on a task that doesn’t benefit from crits all that much (like headshotting a special), Unending Hunt’s value decreases. Ditto with fighting a CW patrol or boss without a horde.
All good points. Obviously it’s gonna be very team comp reliant, and I can see Unending Hunt having a higher effectiveness cap in the right party, but obviously QP is a big deal and so is consistency. I do also wonder if the rapier itself is a big part of what makes Fervency strong, and whether it’s still clearly a winner with other weapons like falchion or A + F. Regardless I’ll take your word for it on this topic, and I certainly wouldn’t be adverse to a minor Fervency nerf. If it did get a nerf I think it’d be nice if we got an I Shall Judge You All buff to go with it.
This is an idea for an I Shall Judge You All buff:
“For the duration of Animosity, Witch Hunt is applied to enemies nearby Victor.”
This would be an aura the size of Animosity. Witch Hunt would last for the full 15 seconds on these enemies, and would refresh if they are within the aura. This is a traveling aura, which @Axehilt describes in the reply before mine.
For a Fervency adjustment:
“Animosity causes Victor’s next 6 melee strikes made within 10 seconds to be guaranteed melee critical strikes. No longer effects allies or ranged attacks.”
This caps out the number of criticals, reigning in the Rapier light spam without really negatively impacting Saltz’ other weapons. Giving 10 seconds to use the criticals is to give Saltz’ slower weapons enough time to make use of the crits, as it would be far easier/quicker to use all six crits effectively with something like the Rapier than with something like the Greatsword.
it’s fine in my book, since it’s an addition to WHC’s ultimate (also mind a fairly long cd) . As Frostysir has already pointed out, there are enough of another ultimates that can easily deal with pats and the rest of elites. Shade disembowels CPs way cheaper and easier with less risk to get hit.
Eh, it’s really not that long when you account for how much cooldown WHC gets for hitting things and being hit. WHC is pretty clearly top tier at the moment, he could absolutely afford a minor Fervency nerf and still be an absolute baller. Also, as already pointed out, Shade is a real bad comparison for balance.
I do not agree on the effectiveness of ferv against chaos patrols, you wont be outputting 1 charged heavy attack headshot per second when fighting so many chaos warriors. And you only have 6 seconds to work with…i think it´d already be considered really good if you manage to kill 3 or 4 in that timeframe.
Most, vast majority i´d even say, wont manage that…is it even possible to kill 1 CW with a charged critical headshot? Doesnt it do like 200?
“Edit”
So on second thought it seems like it can be possible with a power investment but wont that cost something big somewhere else?
…
Unending hunt meanwhile has the benefit that if the CW´s are stacked and your team isnt scattering them all over then you can potentially get to apply 2 or possibly 3 rounds of stagger and a high teamwide crit buff for a long part of the fight.
That buff plus crit from gear leaves you up with 40-50% depending on career or weapon, possibly even more. So while fervency might be better against CW´s in very skilled and somewhat fortunate hands (not excessively targeted for the duration) i still find it likely that UH does better otherwise.
I wont oppose that fervency is better against a single large group of lesser elites though.
It is. It takes 20% power vs, the tag, Assassin and Deathknell for the 2nd level charged stab to 1 shot a CW. It can be built to not require the tag (just needs 20% crit power, also makes it 1 shot bodyshot all other elites). It can also be built to 2 shot bodyshot with further investment. The bodyshot breakpoints are probably better with Flense but I haven’t tested them.
The crit damage the Rapier can do is very silly.
I’ll admit these and the other arguments are convincing however.
Ahh i missed this one barely, was running chaos and ATS on my charm but had everything else …But then again i have a talent for tagging too soon and ending up with another enemy forcing me to switch targets by running past my initial one. ,._.
Being able to bodyshot other elites i did know about though, i just never bothered seeing how their heads tend to be easily hit.
Oh well…but out of idle curiosity, any idea what could be done to improve talent nr 1 on that row? It seems rather…bad😅
I cant think off a way to make it competitive with the other two choices given how it only works on elites and for a short time ontop.
I find crit power quite useless on WHC. Its only use is for monsters and CW, as a crit headshot is an instant kill for anything else and headshots are more than easy enough to land with the rapier.
Also, a better build would use 10% vs Chaos and 10% vs Armour for the CW Rapier 2nd level charged crit headshot 1 shot. This would also let it 1 shot tagged SV on non-crit headshot with the 2nd level charged stab.
I agree that Crit Power isn’t very useful. I was just answering Frostysir’s question.
Hmm, the idea does seem like it´d not be bad at least but it does feel a bit stale somehow…but with bigger fish to fry about a minor boon is better than none.
On the topic of build improvements, yeah i realized, it is just that i am bad at actually accessing the CW i want when i got multiple ones around…i ought to consider the build that allows one to skip the tag for that reason.
Quite commonly people make WHC build with +10% crit chance from melee weapon and trinket. With Wild Fervour, which is basically a +5% team crit boost on Legend and Cata, WHC has 25% base crit chance. After activating his Ulti, WHC has 50% crit chance.
So what Fervency dose in practice is +50% crit chance on WHC’s melee for a cost of -25% crit chance on three other team members and complete removal of ranged weapon crit. I’m not saying it’s a bad deal since WHC has Killing Shot, but it has to compete with The Unending Hunt.
TUH grants -36s cooldown, which is actually far more than 40% in practice because of how cooltime of Ulti is reduced during fights in this game. During horde rushes, with the Unending Hunt, Animosity has 30s~ish cooldown as long as you fight properly, meaning you can activate it more than a single time during rushes. It’s just incredably beneficial for the whole team’s stability.
I understand why some people would prefer Fervency, but I don’t see it being the ‘clear winner’. It only is if one’s ultimate goal for playing VM2 is to get as many green circles as possible on the result page, even if it’s a result of a failed battle.
Fervency feels fine, competes pretty well with The Unending Hunt, I use both with different builds/teams, would like to see changes to I Shall Judge You All to compete with the other two.