Feel No Pain 2.0

[IGN_Vera]

Feel No Pain:
You are blessed with 10 Stacks of Feel No Pain. Each Stack grants +3% Toughness Replenishment, 3% Dodge Recovery, 3% Dodge Linger and +3% Damage Reduction.

Taking Damage removes one stack. Stacks are restored every 2s.

Why?
Ogryn has the biggest hitbox in the game and correct me if I’m wrong the shortest dodge linger in the game. Gunners shred FNP stacks and improved dodges at least would allow better counterplay against them for players that use dodges.

Strongest!:
Pushing, Taunting or Staggering Enemies restores one stack of Feel No Pain.

Why?
Because it would scale better with higher enemy density than just push, and more options to get FNP stacks.

Toughest!:
Feel No Pain grants +2.5% Toughness Replenishment per stack. Additionally, break out of Trapper nets, instead causing Trapper to flee in terror for 8s. This can only occur once every 120 seconds.

Why?
Because it’s thematic for Ogryn, sound cues aren’t reliable as often as they need to be in higher difficulties and it’s only once every 120s.

It would be more of a gimic than a balancing issue, albeit a rewarding gimic for those who already use dodges effectively but due to some unfair event - Bulwark cluster obscuring Trapper no sound cue - it saves the run.

Pained Outburst:
When Feel No Pain reaches 5 stacks or below, you push back Enemies, Taunt ranged enemies in line of sight for 8s and Replenish +50% Toughness.

This effect can occur once every 30s.

Why?
Gunner groups shred Feel No Pain stacks and this source of Taunt would allow melee Ogryns who want to take Bull Rush without slab shield to provide another means of ranged aggro draw to teammates, at the cost of Heavy Hitter damage buffs.

The Taunt would force those pesky ammo wasting shooters into melee combat, frustrated their little toughness oblitering pea shooter can’t stop Big Man.

[Rvl]

Feel no Pain is only somewhat good in Havoc if you’re playing a team anchor, because it lets you survive 1 or 2 more attacks hitting you into HP before you go down (and even then, that’s not much). In Auric its bonuses are not needed at all, it’s easier to just kill the enemies with the help of additional damage and stagger of Heavy Hitter.

It’s a shame because Ogryn’s middle row has some of the best talents. The 20% movespeed and stun immunity upon ult usage is one of the strongest Ogryn talents in my opinion, because it helps with kiting and doing objectives quickly, all my builds have it. The 250% more stagger is insanely good, if only Fatshark didn’t add stagger-resistant enemies to every other Havoc modifier.

It would be cool if Feel no Pain could reflect damage back to enemies or maybe if it “paused” your toughness for something like 2 seconds so you could just swing through the enemy attacks, even as you’re getting hit. Feel no Pain suffers from the same problem many Keystones suffer in this game– to get the subnodes you need to go all the way down, but most of impactful talents can be found way earlier in the tree.

[IGN_Vera]

@Rvl

Feel no Pain suffers from the same problem many Keystones suffer in this game– to get the subnodes you need to go all the way down, but most of impactful talents can be found way earlier in the tree.

That’s more Talent bloat then it is a Keystone design flaw. That said, FNP subnodes could use a few buffs, which I listed.

Don’t know about No Pushover, yeah it’s frustrating that Havoc modifiers can render it useless for the enemies it needs to be effective on, but giving it properties like VOC stagger where nothing is immune might make it too strong.

@Rvl

In Auric its bonuses are not needed at all, it’s easier to just kill the enemies with the help of additional damage and stagger of Heavy Hitter.

But with increased Dodge Recovery and Linger on FNP in combination with the Taunt aspect I suggested for Pained Outburst, FNP would have more utility for teams through aggro draw and survivability against Gunners through increased linger than Heavy Hitter offers, making it more compelling than it is right now.

As it is currently, FNP stacks just get melted by Gunners, because although their attacks may be significantly less damage, each shot still counts as “damage taken” so there goes the stacks as soon as a group opens fire!

[AccountMadeToReply]

Ogryn has 0 dodge linger, so for your dodge linger thing to work, they would have to give him some to begin with lol

[IGN_Vera]

Biggest hitbox player has no dodge linger, lol. No wonder FNP stacks just melt against shooters, gunners. Good grief, thanks for the info

[Arthiio0]

FNP is in a pretty weird spot:

• it’s a DR keystone on a class that has plenty of dr already
• it sacrifices a lot of dmg in HH & other nodes depending how many nodes you grab
• it’s contradictory in design > it wants to promote being tanky but wants you to avoid taking dmg so you maintain high stacks… to be tanky
• it is reactive iso proactive > you lose stacks & need to work (and also grab a talent) to try & maintain stacks rather then building stacks. This means you have less control over your uptime.

I have my own take on how i’d rework this thing to somewhat alleviate these issues:

Base keystone:

You have 6 stacks of FNP, while you have stacks you have 30% TDR; when you take dmg you lose a stack (1s ICD) and upon losing all stacks you gain Rage
Rage grants you 20% melee Damage & 15% DR for 8s, upon expiry of Rage you regain all your stacks of FNP

• Pained outburst - upon entering Rage you push back enemies and Replenish 50% Toughness
• Toughest - During Rage you gain Stun & Slowdown Immunity as well as 50% Toughness Replenishment
• Strongest - Limit the maximum Health Damage taken from an attack to 50 when you have stacks of FNP, if triggered it consumes 2 additional stacks of FNP

[IGN_Vera]

@Arthiio0

it’s contradictory in design > it wants to promote being tanky but wants you to avoid taking dmg so you maintain high stacks… to be tanky

Yup, agree there.

@Arthiio0

it’s a DR keystone on a class that has plenty of dr already

True. Perhaps consolidate 1 or 2 Talents into FNP and raise the TDR from 30% to 50%?

@Arthiio0

You have 6 stacks of FNP, while you have stacks you have 30% TDR; when you take dmg you lose a stack (1s ICD) and upon losing all stacks you gain Rage

This is great, I like this idea. All or nothing on the TDR which is the biggest selling point for me, stacks start strong and decay with damage taken for a brief moment of vulnerability but increased offense capabilities.

Not sure about the damage buff, as it kind of intrudes on Heavy Hitter, but then Heavy Hitter offers a bit of TDR… maybe a movement speed buff instead?

Think about when Rage would be procced, it’s likely going to be Gunners/Shooters a good amount of times and the distance may need to be closed quick.

Anyway, it’s a great suggestion overall and I’m for it.

[Harridas]

@IGN_Vera

Gunner groups shred Feel No Pain stacks

There is a 1 second internal cooldown after losing a stack before you’re able to lose another.

Also, we really don’t need to buff Ogryn again.

[IGN_Vera]

I mean, the Tree could use some condensing. They did nerf Don’t Feel A Thing, so that kind of made FNP more relevant…

But what really is the point of FNP over Heavy Hitter? Dead enemies can’t attack back, and the total benefits of FNP just don’t seem worth sacrificing HH

[Frish]

@Harridas

Also, we really don’t need to buff Ogryn again.

IMO reworks for some of the more unappealing keystones and talents isn’t just “buff”.

Maybe I’m just Heavy Hitter brained but I don’t see a lot of value (or more importantly, appeal) in Feel No Pain. Ogryn is already quite tough and FNP benefits are just more of what you can already get in other talents (T/DR) aside from occasional anti-dog. So in my mind it’s fundamentally inferior to HH which gives you attack speed and stagger/cleave which are better at keeping you alive when refuse strikes the propeller.

That said I do believe it has a place for people who want to make Ogryn tanky, which tbh I’d like to see more of. Buffs like:

• Prevent slowdown/stun while being damaged, y’know, cuz you feel no pain (shoutout to @MarxistDictator for firmly planting this idea in my head)
• Benefits from taking damage (a la Payback Time)
• Expanding on the above, have stacks count up like a berserker mode so hits make you stronger rather than weaker
• Aim punch removal
• “Last Stand” so you can go ham before you die
• Wound synergy (perhaps a lesser effect of the above, or something else positive happens when you lose a wound)
• Vault over a SINGLE railing (kidding… but…?)

This is just off the top of my head, again I mainly see FNP as a good choice for people who are struggling with taking damage rather than looking to optimise or just make a fun build (subjective, I know). For me at least, it ain’t it in the current iteration.

But yeah, what’s more fun than charging through hordes and being like “I AM THE DANGER” as an Ogryn?

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@IGN_Vera regarding OP having FNP buff dodge is undoubtedly strong but feels anti-thematic. Sure it’s an oft-requested feature 'round these parts but “Feel No Pain” to me reads as you’re still taking hits and shrugging them off rather than avoiding them wholesale. Sure it’s arguably ‘better’ to play that way, but I just want the BEEF ya know

imo the dodge CC Ogryn got is so absurdly good that it more than makes up for dodge distance/linger discrepancy. Dodge buff would only serve to help Ogryn in situations where they are supposed to have a disadvantage. As a supporter of classes having significant fundamental differences I would like to see Ogryn be more tanky than dodgy. Also make better use of that gigantic stamina bar!

Hmmmm… Ogryn slide-tackle, anyone?

[ZoroDaOtter]

Gunners would still melt FNP stacks even if Oggy had dodge linger since it only works against melee.

@IGN_Vera

needs to be effective on, but giving it properties like VOC stagger where nothing is immune might make it too strong.

I do miss when Oggy could chain-CC bosses (and Ogyrn enemies since they now have CC-chain protection) with shovel punch or billy club slaps. IIRC, it did take some skill as you had to chain weakspot hits for it to work. IMO if FNP let you chain CC everything again it wouldn’t be too OP since you’re giving up Heavy Hitter’s damage and Oggys don’t out pee out yellow toughness left and right. Something like:

FNP: Start with 10 stacks. Gain 1 stack every 1s. Every stack grants 3% DR (stack additively with itself). Lose one stack on taking damage. Losing a stack grants 15% movespeed, slow immunity for 8s (refreshes on loss).

Strongest!: Gain one stack of FNP when you stagger or taunt an enemy (still has the restriction of one stack per action). Gain 2% Strength for 8s per stack lost.

Counter!: Your weapon special attack gains 250% impact and ignores stagger immunity. Lose three FNP stacks on use. Gain one FNP stack if you hit an attacking enemy.

Berserk!: Lose all FNP stacks on ability use. For 8 seconds, you gain 15% attack speed, 250% impact, ignore stagger immunity, and deal 10% more damage per stack of stagger on the enemy.

Toughest!: Gain 3% DR for 2s when losing FNP. Max 10 stacks.

[JanZamoysky]

@IGN_Vera

Ogryn has the biggest hitbox in the game and correct me if I’m wrong the shortest dodge linger in the game.

Yes, no linger time, other classes have between the standard 0.25s melee linger time (zealot, vet and Hive Scum) to 0.2s melee linger time on psyker and arbi. Certain talents can increase that value on HS and psyker.

I keep reading people talking about ogryn’s hitbox, and I’m slightly confused what problem that is supposed to represent. Enemy “bots” do no “aim” in human sense at players. Ogryn isn’t easier to hit my AI because of that. AI is basically an “aimbot”.

Afaik, size of the hitbox doesn’t really matter outside trying to squeeze through some windows and areas, and trying to hide behind some pillars, few boxes on the arena.

[dannylew8299]

I… definitely am of the opinion that you have a hitbox enemies can still hit when you’re convinced you are well into cover.

The ol “How’d that hit me behind this wall!?” problem.

[JanZamoysky]

That is more network, client-server sync issue, your game client showing you behind cover to you, and the server “knowing” you are still in the open when the shots land.

[Fenrir4life]

It’s not just that. The size of the hurtbox, coupled with the fact that things that SHOULD target center mass (dogs, trappers) to have their effect can still take effect when hitting the edge of your hurtbox, means that oggy players get to experience dogs and nets veering around corners to nail them despite, from the player’s perspective, having LOS’d the dog or trapper.

[Palumtra]

Feel no pain is garbage since the nerf (it only lost stacks when permanent health was lost), despite being able to free you from pox hounds.
They should have just lowered the numbers a bit instead of making it utterly useless, because you don’t really need it on lower difficulties, but on higher ones where it would matter you take so many hits constatly from the 6.5 octodecillion ranged units that it’s pretty much non existent.