Fatshark needs to reconsider turning CW god-boons into weapon traits

Looking at the new boons that ‘criticals consume no ammo’ talent with crits on damage could be our new source of possibly more lol than old boons. I don’t know what the firing interval of the trollhammer torpedo is but on a map with the unquenchable thirst curse it sounds like you’d have infinite ammo and no reloading.

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Not permanent boons because it would turn the game into babby mode, BUT temporary boons, like lasting two campaign missions after successfully completing a chaos wastes run. (not stackable, any difficulty)
That would kinda makes sense because they went there to get help from the gods, what if these boons are the help?
it could also help to complete extremely hard deeds without cheesing the difficulty.

Well it’s been there forever and still hasn’t been fixed for some reason.

Even less to move them to weapon traits - the new extra boons already dilutes the lootpool.

Wrong thread rofl.

They’re also removing 6 boons. So they’re really only adding 25 to the pool, for about 94 total potential boons (disregarding careers that have a smaller pool due to mutually exclusive talents.) A very low number of potential abilities compared to most roguelike games.

Tbf Morgrim spam disables most of the challenges Twitch can offer in hands of RV except for assassines. Not much fun watching RV blowing up 16 CWs, or any other elite votes with a single use of bomb. I do believe that infinite morgrim should go.

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You can turn it up to 200% with low interval.

People can also random duplicate boon which are essentially infinite morgrims and censer.

Also ironbreaker suicide bomber build (trollpedo, 100% crit on taking damage, scrounger, twin arrow) wouldn’t work after the update.

They could have just fixed how messed up those boons were in terms of bonus damage, range boom crits were like bomb damage+ and whatever sorcery was at place with lightning.

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Yes, I’m not arguing against this, I’m just saying that with this update they are moving in the right direction.
This is not a roguelike game, it’s a co-op game with a roguelike-coop mode. I’d rather they focused their future efforts towards the base game. For me, if anything, Chaos Wastes is missing 4 maps. An entire run is 4 expeditions, that would be 16 maps and we have only 12 different ones.

I’ll try it for dozens of hours before I decide if I like it or not, but my initial thoughts are that changing these boons to traits can’t be the ideal solution. My guess is that it’s an easier solution to implement than actually taking time to make well thought out boons.

Yes, it’s not great when players outpace the challenge, but with a but more subtlety than simply changing them all over to traits, you could simply have the random boon alters be ranked like the weapons; offering random boons within a certain tier. There’s already been suggestions on reworking the boons, but this seems a bit crude to simply move them all over to traits. If you want players to utilize the swaps, then make classes that rely on specific weapons viable by allowing them a preview of what type of weapon they’ll get. At least allow players to refund or turn down the option. You could offer weapon temper/swaps on shrines as well as maybe trading down to get coin back or removing useless boons for coins back. This all would incentivize more strategic use of swaps and such without making certain classes less viable.

I think one of the reasons this was done is because nobody seemed to notice that the armor shards trait was more OP than any boon. Just chain kill armored elites and easily wipe out everything; it even works while a disabler special is on you. I don’t think the triats are much more well thought out than the boons.

This will incentivize the use of more random weapon swaps, but that also has a negative effect because less builds and career options will be viable in the CW because they rely on specific weapons. Now switching to temper on orange is more valuable because you might get a trait that makes it better than a red temper; and it’s comparitavely less valuable to get blue or green tempers because it’s now better to save for a weapon with an OP trait.

Honestly, I’d rather just see the powerful boons reworked to be less broken than see them as traits; and I’d like to see the armor shards trait reworked to maybe not last as long. If lightning was just a free crit every 10 seconds like bounty hunter’s blessed shots, then it wouldn’t be OP or so much more powerful on crit classes. If twined arrow was just a stack of up to 10 based on melee kills, then it wouldn’t be OP (and it’s underpowered on things like SotT staff). Moving these boons to traits instead of reworking them just seems crude.

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The fact is fatshark already nerfed “unfair” grudgemark combos not just once, so making the game ramp up in difficulty(even though grudgemark already ramps up in numbers or even existence depending on difficulty and whether you open trial chest - which is choosing to add difficulty) is not an argument in favor of watering down the lootpool with all that trash(like 10m coin pickup and all the ranald’s barrel bs; at least make it 20-30 so there’s an incentive to get it - in case monster gets pushed into lava…etc.).

Don’t really know why this change was made. The unpredictable RNG was part of the fun and I’ve never seen anyone ingame complaining about teammates getting Tempest first map. You could easily go 10s of runs without it happening, and some runs you wouldn’t get a single Unique boon. What was the problem exactly? Is some crit career “ruining” 1 in 25 runs for you justification enough to throw godruns out the door outright?

CW traits were already very limited in usefulness as you had very few opportunities to roll for them and they share the same pool as classic traits. With this patch, runs are going to be very backloaded making early maps feel repetitive and homogenised. This will disproportionately affect less proficient players (but who cares about them amirite guys??? XDDDDDD) as they will have to clear the initial gauntlet to even have a chance at trying out the broken stuff. But once you get to the last few maps you will probably roll something like Heroic Intervention anyway. And even if you get a good trait/weapon combination it usually doesn’t make that much of a difference that far into a run, and you don’t really get to play around with it for very long either. We already know what this looks like, armor shards has always been a thing. It was extremely rare and you only kept it for 2 maps at most. It really wasn’t the reason you queued up for another expedition.

The economy changes however seem positive. Temper now seems to make the next tier 25% cheaper or same tier reroll 50% cheaper. This is a good change. But green/blue upgrades still feel inconsequential since they did not and still do not have traits. Properties always felt meh since you have no control over which ones you get, so you’re only really spending coins for 50 extra power. There was a reason most people saved coins for boons and skipped weapon upgrades until red. Making early weapon upgrades more interesting was the better way to fix this, not nerfing boons.

Hard pass on CW for me after this patch. I appreciate trying to shake things up but this one was a swing and a miss. Guess I’ll see you in Darktide. :slight_smile:

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This, you can also roll crit-based boons(especially ranged crit explosion on people with limited ammo) on characters that don’t have bonus crit% and those godboons are basically irrelevant.

People forget that every character has a crit-capable career. Failing that, self-damage weapons(or heat mechanic venting) + 100% crit on damage.

CW is about expedition to speak with gods so logically the boons granted should be able to make players godly, fatshark only needed to make sure there are boons that synergize very well with all careers.

Green cost change is straight up bad; they’re already not economical(+50 power and only one stat isn’t nearly as useful as blue). Blues were okay. Blues are a decent gamble for +coins at beginning of 2nd level, it will pay for itself at around 20%.

Randoms definitely didn’t need increase in price.

You know what? I think I’m starting to do a 180 on my original opinion. I’ve played only about 10 games in the chaos wastes (mostly legend losses), and there are some buggy things and some things that bother me I’ll surely vent about later, but overall, this is amazing!

There are many new boons and they reworked most of the old ones that were kinda broken, ineffective, or bland. I don’t mind that the old god tier boons have been moved to weapon traits because the temper and swaps are now more expensive and require more investment. You’re much less likely to break the game with some early top-tier boons. If all they did was move these to traits, it’d be kinda disappointing, but the yalso reworked them and added a lot of new stuff that.

There are boons that encourage things like parrying! I’ve rarely ever tried to parry besides doing the dodge-block auto-parry, and now I find myself consciously practicing parrying. There’s stuff for more temp health gain. There are ult and temp health team drops. There are more team support boons; the new curse with the totems and dark temple: chef’s kiss. The trial chests are now unique modified enemies instead of constant grudge-marked bosses in bad areas full of edges or ultra-tight hallways (though it feels like there should be some grudge marks beside the one at the very end). This is the most fun I’ve had in this game in a long time.

The one thing I have to gripe about is that beastmen trial chest that spawns like 18 Banner Beastmen and 30 Bestigors. What the heck is that?!?

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You should play more.

Twin arrows don’t double volleybow…etc. anymore. Meaning all you get is 4 shots per volley as opposed to the previous 6.

“There are boons that encourage things like parrying!”
There already was one, eldrazor’s (plus weapon trait parry). Plus hoeth’s that gives you free parry on all blocks. Shade passive also is made more powerful here(alongside ranger veteran’s ult) with the "2s 100% crit after exiting stealth) here.

So now you’re more likely to break the game with early boons, there are many more that can break the game(imagine pistol RV doing 100% crit on ult by stepping in and out of ult circle, that’s just a common/rare boon, and this is before getting morgrim’s bomb - now with more boons that decrease cooldown, including one that gives ult bar when blocking attack).

"The trial chests are now unique modified enemies instead of constant grudge-marked bosses in bad areas full of edges or ultra-tight hallways "

There are still monsters, actually one of them spawns two monsters.

So basically one step forward(more variety) two steps back(more broken stuff/bugs…etc. for example try jumping back at bridge after the final dropdown at belakor’s).

You’re right, I got to play more, but I’m still enamored by the new shiny stuff. I haven’t yet encountered any players with a severly broken combination of boons like it was before and I played about another ten games or so. However, when new stuff is added, it’s never smooth and it often seems that it takes around quite awhile before the new stuff is fixed.

There are so many new perks, there’s not time to get into them all here, but so far I haven’t encountered one that seems useless or OP on it’s own. Combinations of certain boons might easily be, but that’s part of the fun. In fact, they have boons explicitly for stacking together with other teammates boons.

I suspect you’re right that all this new stuff can’t work without a large number of incidents yet. At this point, I hope they continously update Chaos Wastes well after Darktide is released because whenever new content is added, it needs support to work well. Right now, I’m having too much fun to gripe about anything too much.

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I like the new iteration too. I hope they keep fixing the game, but I hope after this they move back to adventure maps. I loved this mostly for the new map that pushed the story forward.

EDIT: mind, 4 new locations would be great for this mode.

Its absolutely fine now. The reworked chest of trials also make the earlier maps easier which in turn smooths out the difficulty by quite a lot.
You can still easily get quite absurd in the end but it won’t be happening with the first lucky roll anymore. Belakors realm is even there to gift you with potentially 2 absurd boons without any real cost.

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