Executioner Sword and Spear: a nerf was not needed

I know! I read it all, I promise. I mostly disagreed, but not enough to go point by point arguing. That one sentence triggered because I’ve been seeing it repeatedly in every post I’ve visited here and reddit while having nothing to do at work :joy::sob::gun:

Ye, don’t worry, you are welcome! It’s nice exchange opinions… the only thing I generally want avoid is an infinite discussion XD

Greatsword with a Str pot is one of the few. It’s an interesting topic, but for another thread.

I’m deliberately ignoring the implied premise of your point for the sake of being annoying but offense is the best defense, so almost all of them including the Greatsword.

And in fact that’s why the Exec’s nerfs seem very justified to me. I mean, this is a weapon that one shots Marauders with mainstay on a cleaving attack on Cata. That level of front loaded dps isn’t reached except by top tier weapons like the Billhook or Rapier if it’s on a I Shall Judge All the Memes build, and yet it has great cleave base values, which are only enhanced even further by Merc. Even if the cleave got stuck, Limb Splitter will easily mitigate that issue without sacrificing many important breakpoints.
In fact, with just Reikland Reaper and Smiter the heavy still one shots SV and is a single (I was wrong sorry, it’s two or stagger) property shy of Bestigors.

2 Likes

1h sword has great dodge and extra stamina. Mace has good dodge, extra stamina and good stagger, both shields work well with Huntsman due to stagger tHP and Bulwark, and of course spear. That’s 5 defensive weapons Kruber has access to, is that not good enough? Are all of those trash except spear? Almost half of all Kruber weapons are good defensively (even more if you want to include sword & mace, though I’m not very familiar with it), is that not enough? Is good dodge and extra stamina not good enough? Do you have to have shield strength pushes, huge block/push angle, innate BCR and insane crowd control to even classify as a defensive weapon? If that’s the case, then why is axe & falchion so popular with BH, even though it has less defensive properties than something like mace? Because it still has good dodge and it’s nimble, that alone is enough for it to work defensively. I don’t want to keep adding more and more crutches, instead of relying on actual good play with dodging and blocking.

1 Like

I don’t consider 1H Sword a defensive weapon for reasons and shields are too slow for a ranged career style… but this is off topic and I will not continue.

My point is this: after the nerf Spear is trash? Nope (you continue writing Spear’s advantages, but I never said it hasn’t them anymore). But, for the reasons I wrote in the first post, I find the nerf was not needed. Spear already had enough and balanced pro and cons… there was not none reason to remove one advantage.

You disagree, I know, opinions.

Could you tell me why? It has base 4 stamina shields, great dodge, and fast attacks, with heavy attacks that give a lot of stagger tHP. I know you said it should get stronger pushes or more stagger, but are those other qualities not enough for it to even qualify as a defensive weapon?

1 Like

Sure, I can tell you why, but I will not argue about this.

For me, for a defensive weapon, the capacity to quickly and continuously create space is fundamental. For example Mace can stagger with light attacks. Rapier has the push that consumes one only stamina.

Compleatly agree the low pickrate of all the other wapons was because they were so onedimensional and unfun really good at one thing but kinda useless at evrithing else exc sword excel at heavy hitting but still performed reasonably well in any other situation that the game trow you in. Sure it’s a team game the weakness of one should be countered by a teammate except that’s ipossible if you are playing qp withh randoms. The sad thing is that all this balance dosen’t changhe anything sure now shield wepons are a bit more reliable (shield and mace can be good alternative to spear on THP on staggher with huntsman) but the low mobility and low range of shield weapons make it very annoying to deal with elites, 2 hands hammer feels extremely underwelming the moment enemies get a little bit too close or sneak behind you in the back i would like some increase crit chanche on the heavies, halberd it’s bugged as f**k ( the heavy 1 still go to sweep if you wait for too long to attack and to get a headshot you have to aim actually higher than the head itself) and anyway it’s so complicated weapon that screw yourself over with it is very easy. One hand weapons are now a little bit better now maybe they don’t suck but are an unrewarding experience overall. This leaves longsword and mace and sword that recived unneded buffs because they where already good to begin with. In conclusion Merc can keep using Ex sword it will just be more frustrating now or use longsword like it did before, GK can just equip a proper croud control weapon on the second slot Huntsman will still use spear or shield weapon and FK will just have to resing himself that he is nothing more than a punching bag and let all the other kids do all the cool stuff.

3 Likes

As I already said, I do think 2H Sword were in a bad state, and that executioneer was indeed played, not because it’s an op weapon. But because it was kinda the “only” 2H Sword that was able to actually perform “correctly”.
Therefore, I also do think the nerf was not really needed. But it’s not the end of the world though.

2 Likes

I’ve said this already in couple of threads but nerfing the attack speed won’t matter a one bit when merc is concerned and let’s be realistic here merc was and always has been the career that abuses the executioner sword the most.

If they seriously wanted to nerf the effectiveness of the weapon without actually making it a total meme for FK/GK then they should of touched some other aspects of the weapon instead giving it a nearly 10 % attack speed nerf.

Ye, I agree… especially on 2h Hammer… it still suffers too much when enemies get closer… but, those situations where enemies get closer, should be the duty that a staggering weapon should cover!

Ye, totally agree!

3 Likes

I’m really surprised that they nerfed the spear at all. Especially given that they’re nerfing based on use. I’ve never seen anyone use the spear. With an exception being myself. Even then, I never used it because I thought the weapon was particularly good. I used it with Merc because of the horizontal swing after pushing (to proc Merc ability). It always seemed like a balanced weapon to me.

1 Like

I’d rather they leave Exe as it is (or even buff its speed a bit) and just block Merc and Hunts from using it.

Spear was a top tier weapon, what pubs run isn’t really always a good indicator of strength on its own. Spears strength isn’t immediately obvious when you’re playing with it, and it takes a bit of getting used to, so you tend not to see a heap.

I barely see anyone running billhook either, doesn’t mean that billhook wasn’t a stupid good weapon.

Hell, Kruber as a whole wasn’t very popular despite Merc being arguably a top 3 class.

1 Like

Yeah I think the nerf on the Exec sword was a bad idea as well.

Honestly just like with WHC and Rapier… a Merc and Exec Sword are always going to be top tier because the base level of the job is designed completely around using the weapon.

The very basis of the job itself is designed around taking advantage of Two Handed Weapons as a whole. Its also why Merc just isn’t as good with the other weapons, because none of the skills that allow him to do that, can be used with the rest of the weapons.

And there is a point to where Nerfing the weapon just to account for Merc will make it completely worthless to the other Kruber jobs.

The same thing happens on Saltzpye characters when the Nerf Weapons to account for Zealot.

1 Like

Executioner Sword was nerfed because it excels drastically with Merc (and newly with Grail Knight). I’d rather have some things changed in Merc’s crazy good talent kit that enables almost every Kruber weapon to be useful without any real drawbacks.

Just ctrl+f “merc” in any random thread concerning XSword balancing, people are talking mainly about its use with Merc in mind. With the current decrease of speed, the sword has become actually a no-pick for Foot Knight and Huntsman especially as they’re lacking talents to compensate. Only individual player skill might make a difference and even that’s no longer guaranteed.

It might be time to think not only about difficulty specific damage profiles for weapons but also for career specific profiles.

1 Like

It is good that a bit more balance is created by buffing the other weapons, since the nerfs to those 2 aren’t extremely fatal IMO. But overall it is not going to change too much about Executioner Sword and Tuskgor Spear being top tier weapons. The just have simple/better attack patterns and their long reach gives you a feel of safety.

1 Like

I think the only pickrate decrese will be the actually kruber itself, expecially FK since new talent rework feels like a nerf.

1 Like

Ye, I agree on this.

not to be an elitist or w/e but I feel as though you lads didn’t use spear enough if that’s the case

the weapon was one of kruber’s best weapons and is still very very reliable

Otherwise I understand the concerns about the executioner nerf but I honestly don’t feel them at all

3 Likes
Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu