Everything wrong with Legend, Loot, and Rebalancing

Champion is a complete utter joke, there are barely any rats whatsoever present throughout the maps it plays like veteran if not lower. Champion direly needs a increase in the amount of enemies within the map and their health.
Legend is just tedious and not fun in any way compared to Vermintide 1 Cataclysm, all it does is replace the regular infantry with a large amount of elites which isnt fun again just tedious and forces specific heroes and characters to be chosen.
Legend should resemble the Cataclysm of VT1, greatly increase the regular infantry numbers, reduce the Elite numbers but make them dangerous. Some of the maps have a disproportional amount of elites its ridiculous, it bogs down game play in my opinion.

The walk in the park Champion difficulty is too easy, and Legend is just tedious/unbalanced(especially so for some characters who got nerfed without considering what it would do too their viability in harder difficulties.) Fatshark you really need to do a serious pass on champion and legend.

On a side note I believe this is why the whole Hero power stat is just a terrible idea and VT1 model was much better where the rarity of your weapons dictated how powerful your attacks were.


It seems like it does need some work, but damn. The game is three days old. And it is a hell of a lot better than in beta; it improved rapidly, and I expect it will continue to do so.

Give it a LITTLE time. Worrying about end game THREE DAYS IN is just a little silly.

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Clearly you haven’t played an Alpha test before.

I have to strongly disagree. By the time i reached 600 heropower i had enough materials to reroll an increedible 300 times. Right now i have full 300 power orange gear with nearly perfect stats for Ironbreaker/Ranger. I am missing 0,2% attackspeed on my hammer and 10% curseresistance, but i can still reroll 200 times, so i am super confident i can get it.
I think getting the stats you really want is just as easy as in V1, if you can live with 0,2% misssing attackspeed for example.

That is not true. While certain classes and builds will always perform better, but i have seen people perform good with Zealot and Slayer, which are arguably on the lower end.

I do agree that waves aren’t that much of a threat, but not having anyone with cleaveweapons, will give you problems, too. The armoured enemies don’t seem to be a problem to me, though. Armor piercing weapons are not that useful in lower difficulties, but on Legend they show their real strength. Any other weapon can still deal damage when aiming at the right spot, too.

Yeah, it’s not. Specials create a challange of course, but too many of them, especially the crowdcontrol specials, that make players unable to do anything, are really more annoying at some point.

You misundertood the point of talents. Talents give very comparable choices to the stats on your gear and that is all they should do. They are not defining your playstyle. You have the specializations for that. Huntsman was totally overtuned, right now it feels really weak. Ranger Veteran ulti got hit by the changes, too, while it was not comparable to Huntsman. These things will probably get buffed again. Sienna and Ironbreaker are simply OP and need a little nerf as much as Huntsman needs a little buff.

You ramble on about how the game is not fun and you have to farm red items on easy maps. You don’t need red items to get really good stats and you don’t need to farm easy maps. You can do deeds or try to defeat one of those “maybe impossible” bosses, too. Games have limited content and if you don’t like doing any of these things, you can really only wait for an expansion.

Legend should not be objectively easier anyway.
Just adding this, because the overall difficulty feels right, just some finetuning could even it out for an overall better experience.


Still one- or twoshotting while staggering harder hitting enemies will not make it any more of a challenge. Giving enemies more health gives them more chance of striking back. Reducing stagger could help, too. Spawning more enemies really is the wrong way to go. Using the kind of stupid comparison to diablo or any arpg that is exactly why i think those games are boring. Oneshotting giant hordes by spamming one button without any thought creates no challenge.

That is exactly what some deeds include.

I like how everyone has their strengths and Sienna can do everything. :slight_smile:

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That will always be the case more or less. There are no new enemey types and you can increase hp and damage of enemies only so much.

That is just so very wrong. A Sienna can still oneshot Chaoswarriors on Legend with her low cooldown ulti. There are a lot of ways to dealing with armoured units and especially that creates challenge. Mowing down hordes is boring as many people already mentioned, but having to coordinate a team is what coop is about. Having someone to deal with certain enemy types is what it comes down to.
The OP complaining about certain teamcomps being better than others will always be the case. Noone should be able to do everything. The whole idea of having tanks/supports and specialized damage dealers goes in the same direction. Removing or reducing certain enemy types will just make other builds less useful. The only exception here is crowdcontrol specials, which are just annoying in arge numbers. 30 Stormvermin might be too much, too, especially when 20 of them have shields.

I believe that first, they should make Champion a bit harder again.
Not everyone has the skills, or, in my case, the group to play higher than that, and it’s currently somewhat disappointing - I’m not even sure what happened. Maybe add a few shielded clanrats to a horde, or make hordes a bit bigger, or rats and cultists slightly less cleaveable.
Maybe some extra option to break a formation - in tight confines, globadiers often just hit the roof.
With whatever changes they do carrying over to Legend, they could more reasonably have unarmoured enemies that are still tough.
How about Warplock Jezzails to demand teams to hurry?^^

Instead of instant death on drop, I’d rather have no respawn. Well, or only one per place after a delay; Or maybe switch character on death.

Just because she can doesn’t mean she should be able to. Kruber was able to mow down bosses on champ in beta. But again this is about making everything cohesive and organic. Removing basic enemy types in static spawns and replacing them armored enemies is a cop out. The goal isn’t to make the game Choaswarriortide 2, completely shifting the dynamic of enemy hierarchy and core design philosophy of the game. The whole reason why hordes are non-threatening is because they are like taking an air duster to a house of cards. If the individual enemies were more of a threat, than a horde of them would be more cause for concern (IE more fun).

Im not arguing to remove all the armored enemies and leave the difficulty as is. Im arguing to balance the difficulty around the basic enemy types THEN move onto the other enemy types, like the entire game of V1 and V2 sub legend is already.

Like I detailed in my post, the goal of armored enemies and specials are there to supplement the main infantry forces in the map. Thats the whole point behind HORDE SHOOTERS. The whole point behind the difficulty jumps in any horde based game and V1 was that with an increase in difficulty EVERYTHING (enemy related) gets buffed and every enemy feels more threatening. The presence of a singular stormvermin should be threatening. This is to say that, the mere presence of a certain enemy type should be enough of a threat on its own. The threat should not lie in the fact that there are “more” of them. I’m not saying we can’t have more than one type of special or armored during our fighting. But when your main balancing tool for higher difficulties is to just replace basic enemies with specials and armored enemies from champion or worse, is just straight up spam specials, bosses, hordes, armored patrols. Then you aren’t really balancing the difficulty at all, your just inorganically inflating the difficulty. It doesn’t feel like the enemy types complement each other anymore, it just feels like a shitty gimmick modifier you would use for the extra challenge in a mod or heroic deed.

EDIT: I should clarify im not opposed to the current “legend” type difficulty being its own thing or multiplier. I played deathwish and stormvermin mutators in V1, it is fun. I just don’t like the idea of this being top end difficulty and would rather it being something else separate from the main difficulties. I just want a difficulty like cata (or expert from L4D) in V2. I miss cata…

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Re: enemy hp, I greatly enjoyed cleaving through numberless hordes in test Nightmare. Specials made it dangerous. It wasn’t super hard, primarily because of old bloodlust and conc brew, but it wasn’t the purported one shot, and without invulnerable healing it becomes incredibly dangerous and proper maneuver comes into play. If mindless one shot spam is a problem with hordes, maybe nerf ranged some more :sunglasses:

Champion is way too easy now. Won’t make a judgment right now, but as we know, we should avoid having the earlier difficulty be too boring and the latter difficulty, too grueling

Damn i need to mark my sarcasm really better. Of course she should not be able to do everything!

The problem with huge amounts of enemies can’t be solved by adding more dangerous specials. On Legend 3 or 4 hits can already kill you. Making enemies more dangerous would mean that they oneshot, which will cause a lot more frustration than Stormvermin everywhere.
So balancing the power and number of enemies will always be the way to increase difficulty beyond a certain point. There are still bosses that pose a huge threat. Some simple enemies should have a bit more hp and the ability to cleave/aoe swarms should be reduced, which will make swarms a threat again.

And she can’t. She can’t tank like an Ironbreaker. She doesn’t have the disabling/support power of Kruber/Dwarf/Saltz. Her melee options are limited. You people just look at stats and can’t look at any other part of the game. Every single thread cannonball posts in, it’s the same crap. All you want to do is nerf range because you have some vendetta against anything ranged. You don’t give a damn about balance. You just want what you want.

Sienna has, and always should be, highly effective against hordes. She has diverse range tools that give her numerous ways to deal with the hurdles VT2 throws at the players.

Oh she can’t do everything, just more than everyone else. Okay that does make her a little bit less op. I don’t have a vendetta against ranged specs, but they were too strong and got nerfed, except for Sienna, it seems. Huntsman and Ranger got nerfed too much and i would like to see a small buff. That doesn’t really make sense to say for someone who blindly hates ranged specs, right?

We are getting off topic but hey I’ll respond to this. I was a sienna main in V1 and in V2 (though im jumping around abit now). You say she is not a tank but unchained can take some serious beatings through use of talents and blocking. But sure I’ll give you that, she isn’t a true tank.

But saying she doesn’t have the disabling/support power of the others…like she is the queen of CC. Sure if you use bolt you can’t stun anything. But literally all of her other staffs have huge CC potential against all enemies. She even has the biggest CC king in the entire game with conflag. But beam/fireball/firestorm all have crowdcontrol elements. She is a major power house. Her melee options being limited does not decrease their effectiveness either. Sword/flamesword are in a good place right now, dagger is insane, and mace has its place (pun) for the big bois that her staff can situationally not do well against. When everybody else got hit with the damage decreases across the board due to the new damage algorithm, she stayed roughly the same. As a result she is very strong now. I’d honestly argue…maybe too strong.

Against infantry enemies, sure she can disable some targets. Not against bosses or enormous units. Her only way of stopping a boss is the Pyromancer career’s active.

It does. She doesn’t have weapons with the range of that a spear/halberd has. Her armor piercing weapons are sub-par compared to say the Glaive or 2h Hammer. Her cleave is limited.

That’s illogical. Making something else worse when something else was appropriately strong doesn’t make someone like Sienna stronger. She’s still the same. Just now other people are less impressive due to nerfs.

the main factor in how a class performs… is -surprise!- player skill.

i’m not sure why people assume that just by bringing X class with X talents, they can somehow outperform another person. you can’t assume similar skill level across the board. it just makes no sense to me.

kinda like those team game arguments “omg just bring 2 tanks 2 dps 2 heals and it’s an automatic win” they don’t account at all for individual skill.

I feel like this is an overwatch reference and we don’t talk about Blizzard games on my threads mmm’kay? :stuck_out_tongue:

There is a very simple answer to this. Some talents are useful, and some weapons are not available to all classes, that said some weapon options drop off fairly quick or aren’t tuned well for use in legend, luckily lots of changes are going in to make this possibly not the case. However, if you run into legend using say sword and dagger on elf because its super viable and high damage on champion, you’ll likely not contribute much to the team considering most opponents are armored and people like Kruber or Sienna will just nuke those down, making you mostly irrelevant.

strawman fallacy in place, i didnt say anything about weapons, because i agree that weapon choices definitely would make or break the game.

and yes it’s an overwatch reference but i specifically didnt state it. you kinda get my point tho, i hope.

end of work day, going to bask in the glory of chopping off stormvermin heads!

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