I’ve played a Legendary game on SoTT and then on WHC - frankly it felt like 2 difficulties.
WHC is crazy strong - if you’re able to headshot everything… I had to use a bomb just because the horde had 2 SW and 1 ShSW in it and I just couldn’t drop them. It requires skill to be a good WHC.
SoTT just did more damage than the whole team combined - I didn’t have to be worried about mixed hordes (ULT+javelin) you can drop CW from the distance with a couple of javelin crits, if not 1 crit hs…
IDK, she’s just too powerful.
Frankly if you change her +50% bonus damage to be -50% damage overall, I’m not sure it’d be sufficient.
Also, I think all bonus crits just have to go. They are just unfair.
I kinda used to be on the fence on this issue but seeing the power discrepancy with my own eyes in a couple of otherwise similar runs persuaded me.
She’s the most broken prestige so far, GK is balanced in comparison with her.
I’ve played a Legendary game on SoTT and then on WHC - frankly it felt like 2 difficulties.
Just joining in to say , that i too think the elf needs a nerf. This is going on way to long.
Elf needs a straight nerf to all meta weapons.
SotT is another story. It takes no effort to top all charts because everything in her kit is overtuned combined with strong weapons mentioned before. Normally I don’t even try to compete with her damage (WHC main here). I just wait until “the sh*t hits the fan” and prepare to be the last man standing.
I played a couple of games trying to actually hinder myself.
This is the last build I tried, and I had ~25k damage in Cata, second had ~19k. With a goddamn axe.
I think Bloodrazor is the first thing to seriously nerf on SotT.
Mye this is the stuff that makes me the avid believer that the class would still be decent enough even after bloorazor, morai and inheritance nerfs. And the former 2 don’t even have to be nerfed to the ground to be meaningful.
This seems to be the SoT nerf thread so I post here my 2 cents.
Morai Heg should give 2 crits/ult. Even this may be too much, but it worth to test. Morai Heg worth an ult ability currently. It’s comparable with Shade’s Cloak of Mist.
The ARMOR damage of Bloodrazor Thicket should be reduced. The unarmored damage doesn’t matter. Maybe it shouldn’t affect superarmor at all. Honestly it’s quite strange to watch the flying chaos warrior corpses when using the explosive bush ult.
What about a new ult variant?
Because bloodrazor thicket is her only good ult.
With this variant enemies could go through the thicket but it would apply poison or bleed damage and would slow them by about 20%.
This could be used to slow a horde because they shouldn’t circumvent it.
We could put such a hedge in narrow corridors behind us and advance during the horde. Something what the engi or waystalker can do but in a different way.
Her basic ult is so weak this or something else could replace it entirely.
We should see thro this type of hedge to avoid even more surprize attacks.
There could be a poison based build which uses the hagbane bow. As I read, the sisters are famous about their poison in the lore. Whatever is the lore this could be a viable alternative build with the following change.
Atharti’s Delight (10/2) which gives bleed DoT on crits could be changed to improve poison damage. And/or lengthen every poison DoT duration. It would combo with the suggested thicket variant above. The poison damage could be even doubled. SoT doesn’t have much arrows nor a quick arrow regain method so double damage wouldn’t be egregious.
This talent is the weakest in the row so it could be replaced.
Alternatively this could replace Repel (25/3).
Hekarti’s Cruel Bargain (20/2) isn’t strong enough to be a real alternative to Radiant Inheritance. As I calculated it’s equivalent about 5% faster recharge on legend. It should give 2% per killed elite. It might be enough for legend. Maybe. But maybe it should be activated when killing specials, too. 10-15% bonus sounds better and it wouldn’t be OP with the reduced ult damage suggested above.
Radiant Inheritance is another ult in the practice. I don’t remember if it has any crit damage bonus but it should be removed if there is. The combo with Morai Heg and other crit damage bonus item perks is too strong.
I don’t think this ability makes her OP, but the damage from Bloodrazor Thicket.
Repel (25/3). I see no reason to use this. The the push strength could be awesome with opportunist but why would I push at the first place when I could hit? Even without the full stamina requirement, this talent would be still weak.
Making space is a good thing but Bloodrazor thicket can do this better and there is no reason to use any of the alternatives.
The only reason I can imagine for this if I could apply some kind of DoT for the targets when pushing them. In this case I don’t care if they get far from me.
Unchained has a similar mechanic, Outburst (10/2). But pushing only little bit doesn’t matter much.
Shields can do this but better without a req and they deal damage as well.
BW + volcanic can kill a SV with a bodyshot on cata. Any Sienna can kill a SV with a headshot on cata with a llittle bit of care.
Do you guys think people below Cata have less fun with Elf teammates? Since they tend to be the most kill-heavy regardless of class when playing and your team boils down to Elf + 3 tagalongs? It is in her quotes after all.
Well now, let’s not forget the Great Saga of Bardin Goreksson and his drengbarazi.
I guess the answer to your question depends a lot on who’s playing what and it’s not necessarily tied to difficulty. If a lone player blows through the map while everyone is struggling to catch up, it will suck regardless of what careers are being discussed. You could argue that elf careers have the highest potential for being the offender here, but then again, pub elfs typically appear to spend their tied up somewhere.
Yeah I feel like Elf is over targeted in this thread when she’s far from the only one who plays into this problem. BW has been making most of the party a tag along for ages. I guess people don’t mind stuff like Merc because they’re overpowered in a way that supports the party rather than KSing everyone. Support oriented classes can still be overpowered though, they just don’t seem to offend people as much.
I think it’s pretty easy to see why. If you help me stay alive to play the game and play the game better, that’s far more easy to appreciate or even not notice as opposed to you killing everything and leading to me having less gameplay for myself and look at a scoreboard where you got to kill three times as much as I did.
Of course, wasn’t suggesting otherwise, just that Elf’s OPness it’s somewhat overrated because it’s more immediately visible.
Agree with this.
Every class has an insane ability to do something. Elf’s tend to just be kill thing faster. I guess that saps the fun from most players in the immediate. As for why I asked that question, in Cata+ it doesn’t matter how fast Elf kills anything because there’s more than enough for the entire team to handle. For the ones who play on lower difficulties I was speculating if they ever got annoyed that their character didn’t seem to be needed at all since they never get a chance to shine so to speak hypothetically. I had this experience and it made my levelling of other characters boring (wasn’t about to jump into Legend+ without having a sufficient amount of power/levels/gear).
Overrated? killing things is the main objective in the game, all other things are of secondary importance.
So yes, at legend I can simply follow the elf with moonfire bow + S/D (don’t get in front, you’ll get shot, and it hurts) and let the elf get 75% of the kills while I help tidy up the loose rats that squeak past. But that’s the elf playing the game and the rest of us watching.
moonfire bow, javelin, SoTT in general - all are extremely overpowered.
It’s crazy - I think the spear and shield is very overpowered, but it honestly pales in comparison and gets overlooked as a result.
I don’t know how much of this thread you’ve read through, but you’ll find I very much agree about Moonbow, that is more a weapon thing than a class thing though. Moonbow is absolutely one of the most egregious things currently in the game.
Again if you read through the full thread you’ll see a lot of back and forth about javelins. I don’t particularly want to reiterate all the breakpoint discussions etc that have already been had, I disagree javelins are majorly out of line, you can go read the reasoning already presented and if you disagree, please address the points that have been made rather than making blanket statements with no backing.
You’ll also find I agree SotT still has some very overtuned stuff in her kit.
My point was mostly that it is fallacious to suggest Elf in general is solely responsible for power creep. There are a lot of overtuned things in the game, and while her recent additions definitely stand out, she’s nowhere near alone in trivialising content. And yes, not everything that trivialises content is specifically damage related. THP ults offer incredible sustain to the party, as does GK regen duties, and extreme levels of control also does that, like UC with flaming flail being able to interupt an entire Chaos Patrol out of their overhead with 1 heavy attack, amongst others. Damage is indeed of utmost importance, which is why things that facilitate your entire team to do damage safely and continuously can be very very strong. This is probably less visible on Legend where you’re unlikely to get overwhelmed, but it becomes more true as you go up difficulty, and individual characters, even if very strong, are unlikely to carry a run purely on their own damage output.
I’d make her deal 100% less dmg and see where to go from there.
Free crits and any ability to stack crits should be removed.
I’d say atm they all are more or less useful, but dd one makes, well, more dmg.
An idea of changing one of them into this patch of poisoned slowing moss sounds like a rather easy to implement and positive change (I’d change the dd ult into it to make it a nerf).
BH can do the same. Or huntsman. Or waystalker without moon bow. And if you are playing a frontline hero with 2 good and aggressive ranged character they can kill everything so you will play a walking game as well.
The rather sad truth. x)
Moonbow is a rather big offender but far from the only one indeed.
Not outright removal since plenty of other careers get guaranteed crits in one form or another. Simply capping the talent would be enough in my opinion. When I read its description the first time I did indeed believe that 3 crits was the cap, so it was quite surprising to me that the number could be cranked up beyond that.