Overall the ogryn rework conceptually looks good, but there are a few problems with the talent tree that are lopsided or will fall flat on release. I want to point out some of these issues since they are mostly numerical and very easy to fix. I have reviewed the Steam patch notes and am referencing this link for the fully inspect-able skill tree:
https://darktide.gameslantern.com/classes/ogryn-rework
The pathing/connection of these starting talents is uncomfortable and could use a little bit of shuffling around. First off Smash 'Em! and The Best Defence should connect to Furious and Towering Presense instead of Lynchpin and Steady Grip. Furthermore, Smash 'Em! and The Best Defense should then have their locations swapped so that Furious and The Best Defence are connected like they mechanically should be. This would also open a way for melee ogryns to take towering Presence for utility without being forced to take Steady Grip.
Light attacks being able to benefit from these talents is a very good change, but the light attack value being only 1/3 of the heavy attack value seems a bit too low. Iâd recommend making the light attacks replenish 1/2 of what the heavy attacks replenish.
This is just kinda weak and should either release more grenades or also increase holding capacity. This talent needs more in order to be a considerable option.
The numbers on this are just bad. The duration is WAY too low for this to matter. It should be a 10 second duration at minimum.
Giving this talent a cooldown longer than the buff duration vastly degrades its practical value. I suggest either removing the cooldown outright, lowering the cooldown to 2.5 seconds, or buffing the duration to 4 seconds.
This is conceptually a really good talent. The amount of enemies the ogryn needs to taunt in order to get the full effect of this is 20 though, which seems excessive. Technically the player only gets a total of 5% toughness over 10 seconds per enemy taunted which is abysmally low. Iâd recommend doubling the amount of toughness regeneration gained per enemy taunted to 1% per second, while keeping the same upper limit so that only taunting 10 enemies is required for maximum effect.
The new talent For the LilâUns seems like a more clunky, but far superior option than the older talent Wonât Give In. Iâd suggest altering and shifting some power around to make both of these feel like smooth and reliable options in their own ways. For the LilâUns should have its cooldown completely removed, but only grant 15% TDR. Meanwhile, Wonât Give In could use a solid buff to 25% damage reduction and perhaps a slight range boost to 25 or 30 metres as well for the sake of reliability.
The stamina drain is way too steep of a penalty for this upside. Change the penalty to instead reduce your braced movement speed further. Immobile, but accurate.
Burst firing explosive weapons is ammo heavy already and needing 4 to 8 shots in order to get the maximum value out of this talent is somewhat ridiculous. Perhaps the application rate of this one should be increased to apply +2 stacks in the outer radius and 3 or 4 stacks in the epicenter of explosions.
This +25 toughness passive is an illusion of choice. Every loadout will take it. This will always be chosen before other defensive talents are even considered. Iâd recommend adjusting this from +25 toughness down to +15 toughness and simultaneously increasing the ogrynâs baseline durability to 85 toughness in order to make up the difference.
A lot of damage resistance was shifted off of Delight in Destruction and redistributed to the ogryn naturally. This was a very good change, but could honestly go slightly further even. The 5% TDR passive is mandatory in order for the player to take the Indomitable ability and it feels really bad compared to all of the other ogryn toughness passives on the talent tree. I suggest shifting a little more damage resistance off of Delight in Destruction by lowering the resistance to 6% DR per stack, increasing the limit to 5 maximum stacks and then increasing the mandatory toughness passive to 10% TDR. While this would overall be a minor change it would feel better for build variety and be in line with the rest of the ogryn rework.
While this talent is certainly not too little most players find this talent to be too late. Reliability is very important and with the current health threshold it just isnât consistent enough as a safety net. Iâd recommend increasing the health threshold to 50% health while lowering the effect to +50% toughness replenishment. While this might seem like a nerf on paper the reliability of this talent would increase massively. I think if a change like this happened far more players would take this talent both at the upper and lower ends of the âskill spectrumâ.
The Steam patch notes said this required health damage to be taken. If this doesnât apply to toughness damage taken then it will be terrible.
20% is a bit low isnât it? Other classes with swap speed talents give slightly more value than this.
Can No Hurting Friends! and Dedicated Practice maybe have their locations swapped so that No Hurting Friends! is in the middle instead? My reason for suggesting this is that in order to access the talents No Pushover and subsequently Hard Knocks with this talent tree you need to either grab Attention Seeker or Dedicated Practice. If you are using the Loyal Protector ability and the Feel No Pain keystone then both of those talents are irrelevant. Being able to travel through No Hurting Friends! to get to No Pushover would make a lot more sense for the support/tank section of the talent tree.
This talent already has a very short duration/uptime and with the nerf to the cooldown recovery talent Bruiser it will have even less. Perhaps getting the duration buffed to at least 6 seconds would be fair.
The Steam patch notes say âEnemies staggered by youâ and âmore damageâ without being melee exclusive, but the gameslantern website says it requires staggers from melee attacks and only melee damage is increased. You need to take the prerequisite push talent No Pushover in order to take this talent. If pushes canât also apply the damage buff then this will not be good. Hard Knocks should apply off of all staggers the ogryn causes and increase all damage the enemy takes if itâs going to be a viable damage/support talent.
These are both too weak. 25% reload speed would be a viable threshold.
Iâm skeptical on whether this being buffed from 1% to 1.5% crit chance was enough or not. Of course one of the reasons I say this is because the ogryn has such a low base crit chance (2.5%) that crit talents and weapon blessings are always questionable at best. Ogryn should just have a higher base crit chance in generalâŚ
This talent is cool. The duration is not. An 8 or 10 second duration would be more practical since you also need to reload eventually after every activation of the talent effect.
This issue isnât a new one. Strongest! is useless against ranged enemies. Iâd suggest changing the effect to instead cause stacks of Feel No Pain to regenerate at a rate of every 2 seconds which is a notable upgrade over the default 3 seconds.
This might be deserving of a nerf⌠Stagger talents like Slam and No pushover are heavily overshadowed by this. 80% impact from a keystone upgrade for 1 talent point is insane. Perhaps lowering the bonus per stack down to +5% impact per stack for a total of 40% impact would be warranted. Having options that eclipse everything else is how build diversity dies and metas stagnate.