# Crafting in retrospect from Beta and a Suggestion **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [May 1, 2024, 9:02pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173 "2024-05-01T21:02:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Khorne\_Dawg](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/khorne_dawg/32/111464_2.png) [@Khorne\_Dawg](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Khorne_Dawg)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:23am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/22 "2024-05-02T04:23:47Z")
No. I have a right to say my piece and you cannot deny me that. I’m not attacking you; I’m merely stating my honest opinion as you seem to be. ---
**Author:** ![brosgw](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/brosgw/32/82643_2.png) [@brosgw](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/brosgw)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:24am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/23 "2024-05-02T04:24:29Z")
You got any citations or references on this supposedly celebrated positive aspects of the itemization and crafting systems? They must be so large I’m not seeing the forest for the trees. ---
**Author:** ![Khorne\_Dawg](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/khorne_dawg/32/111464_2.png) [@Khorne\_Dawg](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Khorne_Dawg)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:27am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/25 "2024-05-02T04:27:38Z")
No. I am not harassing you, I am taking part in this conversation that you have opted to start, as is my right as a user of these here Forums. I do not agree with you on that subject, and I will not be told to leave for simply disagreeing with you. You aren’t exactly being a very gracious and welcoming host yourself. Am I not allowed to disagree with you or something? ---
**Author:** ![Cerebrophage](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/cerebrophage/32/92210_2.png) [@Cerebrophage](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Cerebrophage)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:28am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/26 "2024-05-02T04:28:10Z")
Yes you are harassing me you don’t get to decide for me if I am being harrassed by you, I’ve asked you to leave, now. Leave. ---
**Author:** ![Khorne\_Dawg](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/khorne_dawg/32/111464_2.png) [@Khorne\_Dawg](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Khorne_Dawg)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:29am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/27 "2024-05-02T04:29:20Z")
No, I’m not. This isn’t your property; this is a public thread. I am not attacking you and you are not in any danger from myself. I am allowed to say my piece and you can’t gaslight me out of here. If you don’t want actual responses that disagree with your own, do NOT go to public forums. Simple as. I’ve been polite and straightforward with my pieces. ---
**Author:** ![brosgw](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/brosgw/32/82643_2.png) [@brosgw](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/brosgw)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:31am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/28 "2024-05-02T04:31:13Z")
> [@Cerebrophage](#): > > you don’t get to decide for me if I am being harrassed by you That’s not now harrassment works. That’s why courts get involved. You don’t get to just declare you’re being harassed. You have to prove it and have the criteria meet certain standards that institutions agree meet the definition of “harassment”. You can’t just objectively claim “you are harassed by person X” without any substance to prove that claim. … Much like that crafting is enjoyed people. ---
**Author:** ![Khorne\_Dawg](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/khorne_dawg/32/111464_2.png) [@Khorne\_Dawg](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Khorne_Dawg)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:36am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/29 "2024-05-02T04:36:21Z")
Unlike OP, I’ve actually been HARASSED on these Forums and the mods sorted them out quite quickly. My DMs were blowing up with transphobic nonsense all day from some rando until Julia stepped in and put a stop to it. Love you, Julia! You rock! 🤩 ---
**Author:** ![Cerebrophage](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/cerebrophage/32/92210_2.png) [@Cerebrophage](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Cerebrophage)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:39am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/30 "2024-05-02T04:39:22Z")
Continuing the discussion from [Forum Guidelines](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/forum-guidelines/5): > [@Forum Guidelines](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/forum-guidelines/5/1): > > ## [Be Agreeable, Even When You Disagree](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/forum-guidelines/5#agreeable) > > You may wish to respond to something by disagreeing with it. That’s fine. But remember to _criticize ideas, not people_. Please avoid: > > \*\*\* Name-calling\*\* > \*\*\* Ad hominem attacks\*\* > > - Responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content > - Knee-jerk contradiction > > ## [Always Be Civil](#be-civil) > > Nothing sabotages a healthy conversation like rudeness: > > \*\*\* Be civil. Don’t post anything that a reasonable person would consider offensive, abusive,\*\* or hate speech. > > - Keep it clean. Don’t post anything obscene or sexually explicit. > \*\*\* Respect each other. Don’t harass or grief anyone\*\*, impersonate people, or expose their private information. > - Respect our forum. Don’t post spam or otherwise vandalize the forum. > [@Forum Guidelines](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/forum-guidelines/5/1): > > ## [What to avoid](#Dont) > > \ ***Profanity, obscenities, or spiteful remarks.** > \ ***Insults of other groups or individuals.** > _ **Harassment of any form. Stalking, shaming, name-calling, bullying etc.** _ > > - Flame-baiting (feel free to disagree with someone, but acknowledge that views are often personal and what you like or dislike may differ from others) > - Trolling. Sure, this is a broad term, and there’s wiggle room, but if the action you’re about to take on the board is neither adding to a discussion, supporting or constructively criticising or otherwise going ‘against’ the grain without good cause you could consider holding back from submitting. > - Posting personal information including phone numbers, e-mail addressed, or physical addresses. > - Commercial content such as advertising, promotions, or solicitations. > - Content offering or disseminating fraudulent goods, services, schemes, or promotions (e.g., make-money-fast schemes, chain letters, pyramid schemes). > - Content that impersonates any other person or entity. > - Posts or threads on the subject of sexual orientation, race, religion or politics. I’ve had to flag you for many of these things. You’re right, you can stay here all you like, moderators permitting. But I don’t have to respond to you anymore as you’ve lost the credibility to conduct yourself in civility, which is unfortunate. I shouldn’t have to defend my claim of harassment on a public forum by someone who’s clearly stalking me from another forum when I asked them to leave me alone, then comes to my forum that I start throwing attacks at my personal character saying that I was creating a forum to “dodge criticism” and then promptly **GASLIGHT ME** in saying you’re not harassing me. No. I’ve got far better uses of my time to make. Starting now. You’re blocked. I’ll still check your posts to see what they’re doing to this forum and will flag them as appropriate, but the block will be to remind me that I am no longer going to engage with you. Period. ---
**Author:** ![brosgw](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/brosgw/32/82643_2.png) [@brosgw](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/brosgw)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:41am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/31 "2024-05-02T04:41:56Z")
> [@Cerebrophage](#): > > But I don’t have to respond to you anymore as you’ve lost the credibility to conduct yourself in civility You could have just… Done that awhile ago. You don’t always have to get the last word in. [https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/21?u=brosgw](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/21) ^You could have just not said anything here and left it. Kept flagging if you wanted to. Instead of… Whatever this, is. ---
**Author:** ![Cerebrophage](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/cerebrophage/32/92210_2.png) [@Cerebrophage](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Cerebrophage)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:44am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/32 "2024-05-02T04:44:01Z")
Which is why I created my own thread. which none of you have made the attempt at even holding a civil discussion, where I plainly and clearly state my position, and dictate the terms of what I am talking about why I think it is good. And instead, you come here to follow me and harass me on this thread? Was the need for revenge just that important to you? ---
**Author:** ![Khorne\_Dawg](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/khorne_dawg/32/111464_2.png) [@Khorne\_Dawg](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Khorne_Dawg)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:44am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/33 "2024-05-02T04:44:22Z")
I have done literally none of those things. ---
**Author:** ![Khorne\_Dawg](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/khorne_dawg/32/111464_2.png) [@Khorne\_Dawg](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Khorne_Dawg)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:45am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/34 "2024-05-02T04:45:14Z")
Again, this is a public thread and we’re a rather small community. You are bound to see the same people VERY often. ---
**Author:** ![brosgw](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/brosgw/32/82643_2.png) [@brosgw](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/brosgw)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:46am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/35 "2024-05-02T04:46:38Z")
> [@Cerebrophage](#): > > And instead, you come here to follow me and harass me on this thread? Was the need for revenge just that important to you? I just go where the crafting conversations go. I have to keep my eyes open for new recruits. ---
**Author:** ![Kambrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c68b51/32.png) [@Kambrin](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Kambrin)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:47am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/36 "2024-05-02T04:47:49Z")
> [@Cerebrophage](#): > > You’re asking me a question which illicits a response based in subjective taste. There isn’t an answer you’d appreciate. Which is to say that its not that I lack an answer, it’s more that I lack an answer you would approve of; responding to your question is an exercise in futility. So your point that randomness is good is indefensible? You don’t even have an explanation for why someone would subjectively prefer it? Good to know My analogyi s fine. I dont like RNG in my crafting, either. ---
**Author:** ![zaygr](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/zaygr/32/71131_2.png) [@zaygr](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/zaygr)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:50am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/37 "2024-05-02T04:50:19Z")
If the stat decrease randomly selects what stats to reduce, too much RNG for a RNG mitigation mechanic and I don’t like it. If you can choose where the decreases go, then it might be workable, but feels like a band-aid solution. Does it cost resources every time you make a change? How many resources should it cost? Do you change one point at a time or do you have to do it in blocks? On paper it might be workable but there might also be unintended effects. ---
**Author:** ![Ragnarok101](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/ragnarok101/32/78147_2.png) [@Ragnarok101](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Ragnarok101)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:56am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/38 "2024-05-02T04:56:14Z")
What’s funnier is that the forum has an ignore button. If he actually wanted to not hear from you he could just use that. EDIT: Actually, I’mma practice what I preach here. Dunking on him is funny but not really worth it. ---
**Author:** ![brosgw](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/brosgw/32/82643_2.png) [@brosgw](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/brosgw)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:58am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/39 "2024-05-02T04:58:21Z")
No, no, no. Didn’t you read? He needs to undo that feature here and there to flag appropriately… You know, it’s funny vengeance was just a topic of discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Khorne\_Dawg](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/khorne_dawg/32/111464_2.png) [@Khorne\_Dawg](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Khorne_Dawg)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 4:59am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/40 "2024-05-02T04:59:02Z")
Agreed. I might just put him on ignore, too. It’s the more mature thing. ---
**Author:** ![alsozara](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/alsozara/32/6944_2.png) [@alsozara](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/alsozara)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 5:36am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/41 "2024-05-02T05:36:52Z")
I think it’s fine to make getting what you want a significant grind/time investment. I don’t think RNG benefits that process whatsoever. It just means some will get very lucky, some will get very unlucky, both ends of that spectrum are highly unsatisfying. On top of that I’d like players to have the tools to adapt to balance changes and meta shifts, the current system handles this very poorly unless you’re sitting on a huge amount of resources and are happy to spend the time doing copious inventory management to roll a new weapon with the combination you want to try. The further the itemisation system gets from unmitigated RNG the better, escaping RNG altogether would be ideal but at very least the systems need some mitigation factors for those that fall at the very unlucky end of the bell curve. It’s very demotivating to try out off meta combos when you may have to luck out with base stats to hit the breakpoints you’re aiming for, farm for the blessings you want to try, and also luck out in the consecration lottery to get enough of the stuff you need. Many potential builds need both blessing slots and at least 1 perk as well as the right base stats to get the breakpoints you’re aiming for. That is just too many layers of lottery you have to go through. It makes build crafting very unenjoyable to interact with and that sentiment seems pretty wide spread. Even if you have the stockpile of resources to largely bypass the RNG you’re forced to just sit in the hub stuck in menus pulling the lever over and over. Hard to imagine how this could be argued to improve the experience in any way. Edit: @FatsharkCatfish @FatsharkJulia I read the above 3 comments that have been flagged and they definitely did not seem flag worthy. Whoever is mass false flagging posts they don’t like might need a timeout for their attempt to abuse the flag system. ---
**Author:** ![Khorne\_Dawg](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/khorne_dawg/32/111464_2.png) [@Khorne\_Dawg](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Khorne_Dawg)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2024, 5:50am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173/42 "2024-05-02T05:50:59Z")
> [@alsozara](#): > > I read the above 3 comments that have been flagged and they definitely did not seem flag worthy. Whoever is mass false flagging posts they don’t like might need a timeout for their attempt to abuse the flag system. Thank you. ![Screenshot_20240502-154533~2](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/fatshark/original/3X/e/b/ebe042c762e28cf51dff76053616a84514f02f90.jpeg) Be warned, everyone! OP seems to be mass-reporting any and all who disagree with him on this specific Thread. [Previous page](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/crafting-in-retrospect-from-beta-and-a-suggestion/94173.md?page=3)