Enchanter’s lair fight is hard, but fairer than convocation’s finale, and it rewards you with 4 loot dies, which can translate into 2 extra healing items.
the difficulty is good. games are allowed to be difficult. challenge is not something we should be avoiding. let the map be the way it is and just be better. that is all
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I simply don’t agree that it’s harder than other challenges. Just challenging in a different way.
This is an absolutely useless thing to say, it’s just a generic smug comment that doesn’t do anything but stroke egos.
Challenge is fine if people choose more challenging content, not just because one map is obviously overtuned. If I wanted to solo the event, I would just be playing TS. If I wanted a harder map when I hit QP, I would play a harder mode. If I wanted the sort of fun extreme range blightstormers + flashbang creates, I would break my own fingers or something.
What level of difficulty a given game has should be up to the player, not QP RNG.
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wrong. if it wasnt up to the qp rng then what, you’re expecting to jus go in and have a typical monotonous win like most of the other ez maps. no, rng needs to be in it, games old, dont make it boring too. no ego needs stroking to tell u u need to be better at the game if thats what ur worried about. if its too much for u, launch into the next all day then
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sigh
Regardless whether you’re playing on recruit or Cata modded, regardless whether you usually finish this map with one hand behind your back or need to tryhard everytime: the point is that the difficulty of Convo is out of whack with the difficulty of basically anything else in the game. Whether that means the rest of the game needs to be pulled up to Convo’s degree or Convo’s difficulty needs to be reduced is another debate. And “gitgud” is not even remotely relevant to this entire discussion altogether.
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I think the event itself is mostly fine. Whenever the situation spirals out of control it’s generally just due to people playing extremely poorly. Spreading apart for no reason, everyone focusing on infantry instead of providing cover for the player that has the equipment to shoot specials and so on. These are basic things that in my opinion should be understood at that level of the game, and it’s not unreasonable to demand them for victory. The finale of Convocation is one of the few places in the game where these skills actually matter. It is quite possible to simply hold ground and smash everything in a public group with average players, be it Legend or Cataclysm, so in my opinion the event is by no means overtuned or absurd.
That being said, I think there are a couple of small tweaks that have already been brought up and which could solve a lot of issues. Moving in and out of the circle blinds the player for a few seconds. This is an old issue that used to happen in Verm1 as well in the few instances when scenes changed, but only on high graphics settings and in any case it happened in way less dangerous circumstances (the classic memory being from close to the end of Wizard’s Tower). I don’t actually know if the effect in Verm2 is dependent on graphical settings, but it takes place in an extremely hazardous environment and deprives players of sight for way too long.
The second tweak involves gas rats and blightstormers. I don’t really understand how gas rats can manage tactical drops on the plateau from down below when they have no line of sight on the group and no one has a chance to retaliate. Must be some high tech Skaven satellite positioning system, but in any case it could probably use a bit of the infamous Skaven unreliability. As for Blightstormers, I think they can be removed from the pool of specials for this event as they tend to be an element to which absolutely no response can be given due to sound and visual clutter. They tend to be completely drowned both audibly and visually by all the other effects and noises of the event, and with rather depressing frequency you realize they were there only when someone gets scooped up by the storm.
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Extremely poor play is facetanking a couple of telegraphed overheads when nothing else is going on. This is not what happens in my QP or Pre-Made at all.
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Interesting that you would place quotes that do not belong to me under my username. If you would have read my message a bit more carefully, you would have understood that what I was referencing was poor decision-making in regard to cooperative play: namely people spreading apart and failing to distribute their roles according to careers and builds. Presumably, they’ve already played through the rest of the map together so they should understand by that point who can snipe specials, who can hold the front line and so on.
If people actually work together, there’s very little reason to see them driven off the circle even in Cataclysm, and this is almost independent of team composition outside of really extreme situations. The event itself is randomized to an extent, but if you play it a couple of times you start to become accustomed to the possible patterns. It can’t really surprise anyone with a small amount of experience.
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it’s literally the second line down in your post.
Distributing roles according to careers and builds is all very well but what if you have Slayer and GK in QP, with hagbane and Fireball staff sienna? No quick fix for specials even if you can see them - there’s also the point others have made that a competent and skilled team can gambol through the level with nary a care in the world and get completely flattened by the end event.
More constructively, there are tactics emerging that are helping QP completions - mostly bunkering under one pillar and saving ults until panic-button moments. It still feels like fluke sometimes that it’s a completion, and @TmanDW is right - the ending is out of kilter with the rest of this map AND the rest of the maps in play. Along with the problem on Enchanter’s Lair of getting thumped as you fly through the air, it’s one of the key frustrations with downright unfairness many players complain about.
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The problem here is that there is RNG and then there is RNG.
RNG for normal maps? You get a random team with mixed skills and if you dont get hella unlucky and screw up = you make it.
RNG for convo? Did you get the perfect teamcomp? Everyone being skilled? Good luck with the enemy spawns? If the answer is “no” for any of the above 3 then chances are you are screwed no matter how well you did before.
For instance, even a skilled team has no answer if they are fighting multiple chaos warriors and suddenly a packmaster jumps down behind someone and they get instakilled because a block/dodge is interrupted. Or if an assassin comes flying from a 3 miles long jump after spawning 1 second earlier. Before teleporting off and doing it again
But how is that worse there than anywhere else? Simple, becuase that event keeps spawning sh*t nonstop until it finishes. So if you stop killing then you get buried in a giant pile of chaos warriors with assassins prowling about.
That doesnt happen elsewhere unless you pull a chaos patrol and everyone just drops dead.
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I think i know who you are (by nick and avatar)… Look, not everyone have your 6000 hours in Vermintide, playing cata twitch and all those type type of things 4-12 hours a day in premade groups with RWC, bchenN, FuPlaayz, Sai* and other dudes, each of which are easily more skilled and experienced alone than ALL of us who voted yes, counted togeter. For people of your skill and dedication its obvious legend games are easy. Grats, cool to be you, etc.
But sorry for asking, dont you think your opinion is somewhat… irrelevant when speaking about average legend player’s experience on Legend QP Convocation of Decay? People are not complaining cataclysm too hard, they complaining they are perfectly capable to do whole game on their chosen diffuculty level, except one map. They are not trying to jump over their heads. Fatshark should either bring CoD inline with other game, or announce that noobs should gtfo and enjoy their new playerbase (30-40 elite twitch gods).
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Well, i guess i sound like what i didn’t want to sound like. I dont think i said it right. It was just my opinion, i do personally want a harder map like enchanters in the map pool. I do agree the special spawns need tweaked. In direct LOS of the ritual pool is bad like assassins and blights. Blights should be disabled there tbh cause how it looks visually up there.
The thing i dont want to happen is a massisve nerf like the one on fort bratwurst. Events should be the fun stressful part. Winnable but stressful. With whatever comp u bring.
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Wait… i didnt see the legend part in the title. I see
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I think we can all agree that brachsenbrucking this map is the wrong approach. I’m in favour of a reasonable nerf to legend diff and below, but I’d prefer current version to a completely nerfed one.
Personally I see problem only on legend. If you only play cata then I can understand not seeing a problem with this level, I think difficulty for cata is pretty much fine. I’ve honestly had easier cata twitch matches on convo than some legend runs where everyone dies and you just have to repratedly solo clutch res to the end or die trying.
Also it’s all well and good saying people make basic errors and die, but this is the ability level that carries through all the other levels @legend (and the rest of convo) without much trouble. Either these errors aren’t so basic (at legend level) or the players are put under enough pressure that it forces errors.
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So far I have 100% completion rate on both Convo and Echanter’s lair in Cata, and I believe it is mostly about the books.
Doing those maps in Legend QP is absolute hell because people believe that failing a map because of books is worth more than succeeding without any book…
From experience and with approximate numbers, in Legend QP, the success rate with books is about 15% at best, about 65% with no grims but tomes and about 90% without any book.
Convo’s end is hell once a single person drops because the revives are hard to pull off, and books simply make it easier to drop. Bugs aside, the event itself is manageable as long as nothing goes wrong. As soon as a microgramme of crap hits the fan, everything goes south and there is no recovery for the average Legend QP party.
I appreciate the idea for what it’s worth, I do enjoy the RNG inherent in twitch mode, just think it needs to ultimately be up to the players if they want to deal with that. QP in a standard mode should be more reliable, including some of the maps/events that are way too easy, and some of the sillier extremes the AI director can pick in either direction.
Think mostly everyone agrees it doesn’t need a full on fort level neutering, just maybe limitations on some specials and removal of the awful flashbang. Probably spawns tied to progress instead of just nonstop spam too, so people can reasonably clutch it without spending 15 minutes kiting and having pubs die to the chaos warriors.
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I’ll probably say the same arguments but here we go :
- Convo of decay have currently the ‘hardest’ helmgart challenge by far, it was properly hard before the buff, it is now nearly uncompletable for most of the people even in legend diff. And cataclysm is worse as even very experienced players will have a hard time against the rng of it.
- People are skipping this map in qp because the coordination specifically required for this event is ‘a bit too much’
- It’s NOT a good practice (design wise) to get a difficulty spike at the ‘end’ of a 20mn run. The difficulty spike should be somewhere in the middle. End events SHOULD NOT step too much out of the difficulty you got during the map. => This is why you usually see checkpoints before hard parts in a game, to not force people playing an easy 20mn part each time they want to tackle something difficult.
This is also why Enchanter’s lair is actually fast when you don’t get grims and tome. (Which make an okay challenge and a kinda bad reward but having bad rewards for difficult content is fatshark signature here :p)
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Its not a good practice (design wise) to get a boring end event that can be played with one eye on Netflix.
Why dont we just add an “I win” feature for people? Just type “I win” in chat and you get transported into the victory screen free of charge and time investment. Seems like a much better choice, since the very most comments about Convo are “I cant complete this in QP, so its bad”.
In my eyes Convo needs about as much change as Skitter, Nurgloth, Engines, Morr, etc. If you use common sense and strategy you will have a great chance in completing the end. If you just engage chicken mode and bang your head against the wall in an attempt to break through you will face a mess.
End events need to be the climax of the map, not the “oh well, time to find the couch. We are done gents! Get me my beer.” part.
Before anything gets made easier, or “balanced”, FS needs to show they still know how to do end events right by fixing Brachsen. That was the last map people complained about, and it got absolutely slaughtered. Everyone crying for Convo to get nerfed either forgot that, or doesnt mind standing still and pressing the left mouse button for a couple of minutes.
If only your choice was not as binary as ‘boring’ and ‘hell on earth’
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