You need coherency to regen toughness. I don’t want to say you’re having fun wrong, but playing so as to never take toughness damage certainly doesn’t seem like the intended playstyle.
Honestly the Toughness gains from cleaving through trash seem way more beneficial than passive Toughness gain in coherency. If you’re out of coherency, trying to shoot stuff and taking tons of Toughness damage, then you feel the pain for sure.
And for classes or feat choices that don’t have a toughness regen mechanic like that? Yeah, coherency is everything, though paired up is decent.
Everyone regains toughness via melee kills. That is not a class-specific mechanic.
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Should not the threat of getting a dog to the face or getting overrun by a horde be enough incentive to play together instead of having a mechanic forcing you to do it?
Yeah sure, you always get that one dude in VT2 that rushes ahead, triggers everything and then dies, but a coherency aura is not really gonna stop guys like that anyways.
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No but it helps the teammates they abandoned.
Man, Coherency is about the magical power of friendship in extreme circumstances. The band of brotherhood. The empowerment of having a friend next to you. Whatever you want to call it.
The whole thread is a solo’ers gripe that someone else is benefiting from something they aren’t because of how they choose to play.
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You sound well mad. It’s supposed to push the idea of teamwork. The most annoying part of coherency for me is trying to beat the Ogryn’s Friends Will Be Friends penance. The game is based on teamwork and since it is. You get a bonus for sticking with your team. Still the coherency buff distance feels small currently. Frankly it sounds like a DPS main rage. Like you ran off on your own one too many times and died. You’re much stronger in coherency bonus. You also get bonuses to certain aspects such as heavy attack damage or elite damage bonus if you have certain classes. When you charge in your team should be following you. It is not a solo game in the slightest. It’s something different to most 4vAll games I’ve played. It isn’t anti teamwork or toxic at all. It’s very pro teamwork.
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It’s not like people have specifically pointed out numerous scenarios where being within coherency range is a bad idea/you’d get forced out of it.
But continue to spread this around I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Again implying the entire game falls apart without coherency because it’s 100% balanced for 100% coherency 100% of the time, and “clutching” isn’t possible.
Despite all evidence to the contrary.
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Fantastic, so we can get rid of the coherency requirements with no loss because they feel bad to play around. 
Thanks, but I’ll enjoy my buffs and friendship instead.
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I think how the coherency bonus should work is it not being a instant penalty when you leave the range, but when you leave the range of the other teamates it degrades over time from its max to the 1/2/3 checkpoints. So someone can guard a chokepoint to quickly deal with a horde while the rest focus on a boss, or someone can split for a moment to clear a bomber/ect but not instantly penalized for it.
But after a few it then decreases and they should return to the group.
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Out of sheer curiosity, where you also against the buffs VT2 classes gave to people when they were near them instead of sharing it all with the class when they jus hopped in or would you possibly try to claim that they weren’t that gameplay affecting and conveniently ignore this blatant show of hypocrisy?
Basically, I can very easily hop onto your side on this argument IF you can provide me with a logical argument as to why we can have those be fine in VT2 while the same can’t be done in Darktide.
In so many instances in my nearly 100 hours of playing DT now, I have yet to be killed ONCE because of being out of coherency. Quite often I break off to do an objective because I am noting that the enemy is nicely ignoring me enough for me to quickly go reactivate a Data Interrogator and not be punished for my efforts. I have several times been split off from my teammates due to those obnoxious bombers lobbing a grenade across the system through the blessings of the warp perfectly between me and my allies so I have no choice but to stay back for a bit while they are being pushed back because of the horde, and survived. The only times I have seen people be punished for being out of coherency have been when they have for whatever reason decided to stay so far away that the game director spawns a trapper or a hound, much like it did in VT2 for those that were isolated, and get attacked so that the team can’t reach them in time to rescue them for the reason I already pointed out. Another great example of the ledge snipers that decide that instead of dropping down onto the objective, they will remain on the ledge and snipe, only to have a trapper spawn behind them and get netted so that they can’t be rescued due to distance.
The only benefit you are getting while staying in coherency is PASSIVE REGEN OF TOUGHNESS, the rest come from your class benefits which work identically to those in VT2, aka stay near a friendly that has it and congrats, you got yourself a buff.
However, you regain Toughness with your class feat you unlock at level 5 AND MELEE KILLS. Your primary source of Toughness regen is from your own personal actions you yourself need to do with your own skill. I know that as I am levelling my Psyker, my Toughness hardly breaks as it is very easy for me to just regain it via Quelling, and if I get myself beat so hard it does break, it is usually because I got swarmed by way too many enemies or Elites that I didn’t see coming, never because I didn’t have that passive Regen or minor Toughness resistance from the Zealot.
So once more it just seems to narrow down to two conclusions I can draw out of this. A) Actual skill issue and people simply want to put the blame of their own actions on the game’s mechanics instead of learning the game, as in it is not VT but its own game with its own mechanics. B) People just want to have the buffs of everyone else while they solo rush through the mission.
I see no logical reason in any of the arguments so far that would indicate otherwise based solely on my own player experience, and I would not consider myself a tryhard nor a great player at the game.
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That is one very long and arrogant post trying to bait a particular response you can pounce on. You’re very clearly fishing for particular answers and aren’t coming at this from an honest discussion standpoint. Have fun with that.
Exactly, i dont want to read the long post, just reply to it.
If a game requires you to move out of coherency rangec than your taking the risk of your judgment. If stepping away and losing bonuses is better than staying with bonuses, than thats just that.
Remember, every time you move out of possition, the commisar is not impressed
Having gone through your main post in the thread, the one with the Ogryn argument, and I simply am curious as to how the coherency system is the problem there?
I saw you regen more Toughness with your feat than you did when in coherency, the moment you dropped your teammates to fight Plague Ogryn in order to go chase the Sniper instead of trying to keep the aggro on the Ogryn, this leads to the instant death of the Psyker whose job it would have been to take out the said Sniper with one head pop. That just seems evidence of bad decisions and lack of coordination rather than the coherency somehow being the problem. The issue you also pointed out had nothing to do with it, the Ogryn talent being bad, and this is the case across the board with the Zealot too where the Talents are still nowhere near balanced compared to the Veteran.
It just baffles me how the coherency is to blame, and the video itself seems to support my argument in the manner more. Had you stayed and fought the Ogryn, the Psyker would have gotten the opening he needed to tap the Sniper. It was not the coherency that got him whacked off the edge as Toughness does not magically reduce your distance getting thrown off a ledge.
Again, you are barking at the wrong tree, the coherency system is not the problem, it is two other things. 1. Some people are still in the mindset of this being just reskinned VT which it isn’t, and 2. Much like VT on launch, the game is unbalanced to oblivion and requires a great deal of finetuning before we get even remotely close to what VT currently is in terms of said balance. Having levelled up a Veteran, a Zealot and now well on my way with the Psyker at lvl 21, I have more than noticed the actual problems with the game’s balance and the root cause of it. The Toughness is to blame, yes, but the issue isn’t Regen, it is Ranged vs Melee. Ranged soaks up all damage until your Toughness breaks. Melee is reduced in Tiers but you will always take damage. Toughness becomes nigh useless when you get close while staying out of range, and as such being able to take cover if you need to, it becomes so much better.
Again to summarise, the problem is not coherency, it is just lack of finetuning and balancing. Come back in roughly a year and check to see if the coherency still is a massive problem, because I’d estimate that is how long it will take FS to iron out the kinks they currently have in the balance of the game.
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Nothing in that video was blaming coherency for causing major issues such as the zealot getting punted off the edge.
It was pointing out a normal scenario where moving away from your team is the smarter move. Especially in PUGs.
You’re now just doing what I expected, attempting to nitpick rather than trying for genuine discussion. Backseat gaming is obnoxious as all hell, especially the way you’re going on. So I should have let the sniper get off potentially 3+ more shots while I worked my way back, or stop it entirely after 1 shot while it continues focusing me (Knowing I can dodge it) and scaring it off. Got it. (Also the entire video was with PUGs late at night, after already fighting a boss in the sewer portion right before. I’m not pretending there was perfect gameplay in the video.)
Also I was not regenning via my feats, my toughness regen was purely from confident strike (toughness on follow up hits) as it’s almost a requirement to make melee feel a lot better, especially in scenarios like the video. If I hadn’t been running that weapon trait, I would have been screwed by two gunners only simply because of the boss chasing me past them.
I guess since I didn’t give you something to latch onto you had to fish for something.
You’ve also totally missed the point that it isn’t about balance. It’s just not a fun mechanic to me. It’s an opinion. You’re trying to come at it from a debate standpoint and that’s a waste of time for everybody. Having it constantly in the back of my mind rather than prioritizing just playing the game is not fun to me, even if many times it’s not the end of the world if you’re not always in coherency.
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And I am simply trying to explain as to why it shouldn’t be at the back of your mind to begin with, it just should be a natural thing to do in games like this. Work as a team, which most of the time means to stick with the team, but doesn’t mean you must be glued to your team, that’s what the mechanic is there for. Sure, your opinion is what it is and you have the right to it, but I am simply informing you why your opinion has problems when you try to use it to force out a mechanic while also blowing it totally out of proportions, as are many of those that are currently against the mechanic in general in this thread.
You are one of the few more level-headed people against this at the very least, which I can both appreciate and respect, which is why I am more stubborn about trying to actually have a conversation about it. Yes, I very much consider the idea debate because that is exactly what should be had when you make a claim like this:
When your opinion is directed at something that would affect me and my enjoyment of the game, then it is very much meant to be a debate. There is a solution here that doesn’t require you to care about the mechanic, which is either playing on lower difficulty where it matters even less than it does on 3 and above, or quite simply learn that you don’t need to worry about the mechanic if you are working with your team.
I personally like the mechanic. The reasons I have listed already, as have many others, it is an incentive to stick together and discourages solo rushing, but isn’t punishing you for splitting off, as that is done by the Game Director via spawning grabbler enemies. I also have an itching that the game actively is also trying to break the team apart for that reason, based mostly on its tendency to send Bombers your way, or Poxbursters. Of course, I haven’t confirmed this for myself yet, but I do feel like there is a lot of those two, as well as Mutants, that keep coming our way the more we do stick in coherency, so it wouldn’t surprise me if it is intentional.
The issue is that the benefit from coherency doesn’t line up with the times you need it most. Moving forward to engage in melee shouldn’t be causing you to have to consider whether or not you lose your regen if things go south, when you’re very clearly still working with your team. A HUGE part of my issues with coherency is the fact that they completely tied toughness regen to it. If things go south while you’re pushed forward at all and you can’t melee anything and allies are just out of coherency range? You’re boned. There’s generally little you can do besides take damage. That is extremely obnoxious and anti fun design that promotes significantly more passive play and being tied to your team even when it would not otherwise be necessary. Flanking is a very, very basic premise of shooters and yet Darktide actively discourages it.
That goes hand in hand with the fact that a lot of the map design doesn’t line up with the core gameplay design but that’s another matter.
I’m already finding heresy too easy. Telling me to drop difficulty (Which I find incredibly boring) is a total non answer to the issue. It also still doesn’t fix the coherency issues.
Which, as I said, is also completely untrue. You can be entirely working with your team while being constantly out of coherency radius. Just because somebody doesn’t have their head shoved up your rectum doesn’t mean they’re not working with their team.
And yet it’s actively hurting my enjoyment of the game as well, hence my point about it being an opinion. We have polar opposite views. I think the entire concept is inherently flawed and overly restrictive. You like it and thinks it promotes team play. (Which I also disagree with as I just said) That’s it. It’s fine if you like it (Though I don’t get it personally), but that doesn’t mean I have to engage in debates about it.
As I said above, it very much does as it limits your options and survivability for plays that would otherwise open up possibilities. It’s overly restrictive.
And yes, the game will spawn pox hounds to go after people who are split up already.
I’m not coming at this from an angle of ignorance either, I’ve been playing the hardest difficulties in L4D style games since them. I was an early realism expert solo player in L4D2, I’ve completed solo runs in Vermintide, I did similar in Back 4 Blood (Which was a pain since there was no good way to get rid of bots without gunning them down), etc. Don’t take this as me wanting it to be a solo game by any means, I also continually did the games with normal groups as well (But that goes back to where I ended up finding them too easy in the long run). My point is purely that I’m somebody that learns these games inside and out in the first place and enjoys a challenge. I’m already worried I’m going to find Darktide too easy as even Heresy with PUGs is starting to get too easy now that I’ve hit 30. (Though it was already starting to feel easy by the early 20s)
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Take a shot every time you read “toxic”, “seriously” or “paternalistic” 
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