# Braced vs ADS autoguns **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [November 20, 2023, 10:15pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/braced-vs-ads-autoguns/87597 "2023-11-20T22:15:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kiminaze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e19adc/32.png) [@Kiminaze](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Kiminaze)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 10:15pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/braced-vs-ads-autoguns/87597/1 "2023-11-20T22:15:27Z")
Currently I am using the Columnus MK V (ads) on my Veteran and sometimes on my Zealot. I did use the Columnus MK II (braced) a fair bit a year ago but never really after getting Bolter, Lasguns etc. I recently decided to try the MK2 again but I feel like the MK5 simply outperforms it greatly. I don’t have any data, but I feel like it is so much easier for the exact same playstyle. My latest build features around running in close/melee range and either knifing or shooting depending on the situation. (no keystones, just a lot on the right side skilled) The braced autoguns feel like they miss sooo many shots even at short range that I am reloading while only having killed 2 gunners. Meanwhile using the MK5 I can mow down an entire group with a single magazine plus 2 or 3 knife hits. Also am I correct that bracing those guns actually makes them worse? One of the main reasons to choose a braced weapon should be that it has a much better handling, but the transition from hipfire to bracing is sooo slow as well. Again I might just use the MK5 as both it’s hipfire and the transition to ADS is so much faster. Ammo count is also similar… I am really confused… Am I missing something? Also just gimme your general opinion on this topic. Some information about me: - Vet main (250+ missions completed) - ~600 missions completed total - All classes level 30 - Usually playing Damnation and/or auric missions (including maelstrom) ---
**Author:** ![Tzcheese](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/tzcheese/32/53773_2.png) [@Tzcheese](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Tzcheese)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2023, 11:57pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/braced-vs-ads-autoguns/87597/2 "2023-11-20T23:57:19Z")
> [@Kiminaze](#): > > I recently decided to try the MK2 again but I feel like the MK5 simply outperforms it greatly. I don’t have any data, but I feel like it is so much easier for the exact same playstyle. The playstyle is totally different. Mk5 IAG is all about ADS and headshotting at close/mid range. If you’re primarily hipfiring it, you’re doing it wrong. Mk2 is all about pretending you’re a 1920’s gangster and hipfire rattling enemies down at close range. You rarely brace the Mk2. If you’re playing them the same way, that’d explain why you feel like the Mk 2 is weak. It definitely isn’t. > [@Kiminaze](#): > > Also am I correct that bracing those guns actually makes them worse? Mostly, yes. Not worse in that they do less damage or less reliable damage, worse in that bracing them neuters your mobility, which is bad because mobility is the main reason to use a BAG over an IAG (this is why the Graia braced is the worst one). The Agri braced’s brace mode improves accuracy, Graia gets a massive attack speed buff and Columnus… Used to flatten the spread a little? I have no idea if that’s changed since the patch. > [@Kiminaze](#): > > The braced autoguns feel like they miss sooo many shots even at short range that I am reloading while only having killed 2 gunners. Can you post an image of the stats on the gun you’re using? At close range you should be landing 90%+ of your shots, assuming you stay on target. Unless you’ve got terrible rolls or are engaging outside optimal ranges (it’s closer than the Mk5+ADS), you should be able to drop 4-5 gunners at least before reloading. Overall they’re thirsty weapons, though no more or less than infantry autoguns. On zealot I’d personally be using something less spammy. ---
**Author:** ![dragomusic](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/dragomusic/32/77374_2.png) [@dragomusic](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/dragomusic)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 12:23am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/braced-vs-ads-autoguns/87597/3 "2023-11-21T00:23:56Z")
Important to note that all 3 Infantry auto guns are viable now, but only the Agripinaa braced auto gun is viable. The graia and column brautos do almost no damage. ---
**Author:** ![Kiminaze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e19adc/32.png) [@Kiminaze](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Kiminaze)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 12:44am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/braced-vs-ads-autoguns/87597/4 "2023-11-21T00:44:53Z")
> [@Tzcheese](#): > > Mk5 IAG is all about ADS and headshotting at close/mid range. If you’re primarily hipfiring it, you’re doing it wrong. Oh yea, ADS is the way to go. I often just switch to hip fire when reeeaaally close (like “slide in between their feet”-close). No point in aiming there tbh. > [@Tzcheese](#): > > Mostly, yes. Not worse in that they do less damage or less reliable damage, worse in that bracing them neuters your mobility, which is bad because mobility is the main reason to use a BAG over an IAG (this is why the Graia braced is the worst one). Should have clarified that I found a thread where someone was pointing out the spread of the weapons and that it gets worse when bracing ( ["Bracing" on Braced Autoguns is Worse Than Hipfire](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/bracing-on-braced-autoguns-is-worse-than-hipfire/82509) ). But yes, the movement penalty is ridiculous for something that should be “easier” to handle. > [@Tzcheese](#): > > Can you post an image of the stats on the gun you’re using? Mainly missing some damage buffs on them as of now I would say. (I had them both for ages and didn’t bother modifying yet apart from what you can see currently as I want to use the plasteel to finally get a proper rashad axe .\_\_. ) ![image](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/fatshark/original/3X/7/e/7e522bd20bf03cb7e32b76fc089d333eb91dd2d3.jpeg) ![image](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/fatshark/original/3X/e/f/ef34f6574d3647840ee878f28ff60153e3d13215.jpeg) Current skill tree (still experimenting though) ![image](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/fatshark/original/3X/f/e/fee731638d06c7ad4b72beb0cbc7881369d011a8.jpeg) And just to clarify: I’m not going for a “100% min-max” build. I just want something decent that I like playing with and kind of fits what I wanna play and right now the Mk2 feels just weird imo. > [@dragomusic](#): > > Important to note that all 3 Infantry auto guns are viable now, but only the Agripinaa braced auto gun is viable. The graia and column brautos do almost no damage. Have yet to properly try the agri or graia though. ---
**Author:** ![G0IForce1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e99b99/32.png) [@G0IForce1](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/G0IForce1)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 5:10am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/braced-vs-ads-autoguns/87597/5 "2023-11-21T05:10:31Z")
Havent used the columnus mk2 Brauto all that much because to me the what the mk5 offers has more versatility. Ive always maintained (even prior to patch 13) that the mk5 can be used like a brauto, anyway. The gimmick of the mk2 is increased fire rate when braced, but i think it needs more to stand out. It could do more damage, or maybe a smaller movement speed penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Tzcheese](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/tzcheese/32/53773_2.png) [@Tzcheese](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Tzcheese)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 8:52am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/braced-vs-ads-autoguns/87597/6 "2023-11-21T08:52:20Z")
> [@Kiminaze](#): > > I often just switch to hip fire when reeeaaally close (like “slide in between their feet”-close). No point in aiming there tbh. That’s where the Mk 2 shines. Better stopping power and a bigger mag than the Mk 5 make a big difference at close range. Pair it with talents and blessings that increase suppression and you can just kind of sprint around and murder everything while it cowers in fear. > [@Kiminaze](#): > > Should have clarified that I found a thread where someone was pointing out the spread of the weapons and that it gets worse when bracing Agri’s braced mode reduces the spread, Colum’s widens the spread, Graia’s massively increases it’s fire rate. > [@Kiminaze](#): > > Mainly missing some damage buffs on them as of now I would say. Damage blessings on the Mk 2 are a waste because they’re all ‘close range’, which is actually so close that they’re usually dangerous to try and utilise. You’re better off with speedload and stripped down for general mobility and survivability, and getting your extra damage from your skill tree and perks. > [@Kiminaze](#): > > I’m not going for a “100% min-max” build. I just want something decent that I like playing with and kind of fits what I wanna play and right now the Mk2 feels just weird imo. I’m using this with my Mk 2: ![image](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/fatshark/original/3X/9/b/9b776d1bf288f278227172f61130a03d1cf82397.jpeg) I play it more like an arena shooter than a tactical shooter. Mobility is life. > [@Kiminaze](#): > > Have yet to properly try the agri or graia though. The graia is the only one I’m unsure about. I haven’t used it much because braced mode is a pain to use, and without braced mode it’s just a columnus with half the damage output and bad stagger. The other two are definitely viable at T5++. ---
**Author:** ![Forsion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5e9695/32.png) [@Forsion](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Forsion)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 10:05am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/braced-vs-ads-autoguns/87597/7 "2023-11-21T10:05:02Z")
> [@Kiminaze](#): > > The braced autoguns feel like they miss sooo many shots even at short range Id suggest to try out combination of executioner stance and deadshot. Focus target with target down modifier, or Weapon specialist with invigorated, or duck and dive for better stam sustain, if you need it. That way braced mode will turn in to your long range, accurate mode, or burst option and regular for close range. But you also need to run at least one 3 stam curio (i run 3 or 2). Also. Column mkV infantry autogun seems to be a bit overtuned to me, especially with marksman’s focus. That’s why the rest of auto guns don’t feel that good in comparison, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![G0IForce1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e99b99/32.png) [@G0IForce1](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/G0IForce1)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 10:20am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/braced-vs-ads-autoguns/87597/8 "2023-11-21T10:20:19Z")
Columnus mk 5 is pretty strong esp with conjunction with deadshot. I do like the fact that it can be used as a brauto though. Either reduce the range further or increase the recoil? But i think braced autoguns could use some love, at least for the ones not the agripina ---
**Author:** ![simpliv](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/simpliv/32/63915_2.png) [@simpliv](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/simpliv)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2023, 4:08pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/braced-vs-ads-autoguns/87597/9 "2023-11-21T16:08:53Z")
> [@Kiminaze](#): > > Should have clarified that I found a thread where someone was pointing out the spread of the weapons and that it gets worse when bracing ( [“Bracing” on Braced Autoguns is Worse Than Hipfire](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/bracing-on-braced-autoguns-is-worse-than-hipfire/82509) ). > But yes, the movement penalty is ridiculous for something that should be “easier” to handle. I did another test now that the game has updated quite a bit, with a bit more information so that it is more consistent with viewers. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/kOueuUZgg9Q/hqdefault.jpg "Braced Agripinaa Testing") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOueuUZgg9Q) ![Darktide_1wlrDtJqYx](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/fatshark/original/3X/4/3/43a2a58aa87a0c3114cefbff943bdd8bc02d0b31.png) It seems like bracing still has little effect on the Agripinaa in particular. In my previous thread I never actually tested the other autoguns, out of the fact that at the time they weren’t worth using at all. The Graia fires faster while braced, and has a significant improvement in grouping: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/H3Y49YDGK9w/hqdefault.jpg "Braced Graia Testing") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3Y49YDGK9w) ![Darktide_nouiZgnwZE](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/fatshark/original/3X/4/e/4ebad086a7a5022697be93bb57715d9ec7461d11.png) The Columnus seems to not get any discernible benefits from bracing for the most part: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/c9Wum3AuaUo/hqdefault.jpg "Braced Columnus Testing") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9Wum3AuaUo) ![Darktide_pefKXwtaoF](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/fatshark/original/3X/5/c/5c451cebb5eb0b2ce2197372d810972c58bda52d.png) I tested with Deadshot and did not see a discernible difference in the sway reduction (as it is already massively mitigated by the bracing effect), but from experience, Deadshot tends to be a lot more effective with high ROF weapons, especially ones that have a good finesse modifier to take advantage of the critical damage (blue variants are usually the “crit weapons” when Fatshark follows their weapon design patterns). (This was annoying to test because I had to constantly enter and leave the Psykhanium (and had one infinite load in the meantime) because eventually the game would stop spawning decals, lol.) And sorry for the video quality. Should be good enough, but I should figure out how to take higher quality on Sharex at some point. ---
**Author:** ![Kiminaze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e19adc/32.png) [@Kiminaze](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Kiminaze)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 9:04am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/braced-vs-ads-autoguns/87597/10 "2023-11-22T09:04:29Z")
First of all thanks for all the input 🙂 > [@Tzcheese](#): > > That’s where the Mk 2 shines. Better stopping power and a bigger mag than the Mk 5 make a big difference at close range. I’ll have another shot at it then. Switch a blessing around (if I got one that fits) and maybe alter my build again. Really need to get that extra loadouts mod hahaha > [@Tzcheese](#): > > Damage blessings on the Mk 2 are a waste because they’re all ‘close range’ I never actually considered them because they are simply situational. Also what does “close range” actually mean? Like 5 meters? Feels like it at least. > [@Tzcheese](#): > > The other two are definitely viable at T5++. Definitely gonna try out both agri and graia though I suspect graia is too ammo hungry with the rof increase. But I love fast firing weapons hahaha (love me my P90, Vector etc in other games) > [@Forsion](#): > > Id suggest to try out combination of executioner stance and deadshot. > [@G0IForce1](#): > > Columnus mk 5 is pretty strong esp with conjunction with deadshot Really not a fan of deadshot. While great for damage, you basically lose the benefit instantly if you are using a fast firing weapon and not using 2 or 3 stamina curios. Kind of locks you out of using other curios and the loss of stamina with no extra stamina in some situations can be detrimental. And since I actually use melee, block push, etc I just need the stamina. > [@Forsion](#): > > Column mkV infantry autogun seems to be a bit overtuned I could kind of agree with it, although it is very mission and team dependent. E.g. if you have 3 ammo hungry team mates, it will feel really weak again. Still always great for damage output, just often not sustainable. (at least without using scavenger) Also @simpliv thank you for the additional testing! Spares me a little time haha 😃 Maybe it’s all a case of having bad luck with my recent missions going haywire all the time. Had _a lot_ of Psykers (including my own mates 😅 ) blow themselves up every single opportunity they get, Ogryns walking inside me while I’m firing and just standing there until I realize I just lost half a magazine or in general players not focusing enemies at far ranges (e.g. snipers). I probably just need more time testing and getting more proficient myself with those weapons. Maybe I’ll just wait until they address the vet tree again. The sheer amount of nodes and filler stuff just locks you out of so many skills. I really want to try the keystones but then I’m missing other essentials for what I want to do 🤷‍♂️ But that’s a different topic entirely. ---
**Author:** ![Tzcheese](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/tzcheese/32/53773_2.png) [@Tzcheese](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Tzcheese)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 9:26am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/braced-vs-ads-autoguns/87597/11 "2023-11-22T09:26:28Z")
> [@Kiminaze](#): > > I never actually considered them because they are simply situational. Also what does “close range” actually mean? Like 5 meters? Feels like it at least. It’s 8 meters, which is right about the range where you’re going to get whacked if you don’t have eyes _everywhere_. > [@Kiminaze](#): > > Definitely gonna try out both agri and graia though I suspect graia is too ammo hungry with the rof increase. But I love fast firing weapons hahaha (love me my P90, Vector etc in other games) If you’re going to like any of the braced autos, it’ll be the agri. It’s definitely the strongest of the 3. The Graia’s short range + the need to brace constantly makes it really hard to use. And you do need to brace it. I wasn’t exaggerating when I said it’s just a terrible columnus when hipfired. I don’t use Deadshot for the same reason as you - It nukes your stamina. Mobility is a big deal with the brautos, so having no stam is a no-go for me. Theoretically it might be pretty strong on the Graia though? Edit: I just did some (very) brief testing, and hipfire Columnus with Precision Strikes absolutely dumps on braced graia with Deadshot, at the same range and aiming for the neck. It’s not even a contest. > [@Kiminaze](#): > > Maybe I’ll just wait until they address the vet tree again The vet tree has almost nothing for braced autos outside of the extra ammo (which is all but mandatory for them, I think). It’s really disappointing how hard they’re leaning into the “headshots or melee” design. ---
**Author:** ![G0IForce1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e99b99/32.png) [@G0IForce1](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/G0IForce1)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 10:18am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/braced-vs-ads-autoguns/87597/12 "2023-11-22T10:18:36Z")
Duck and dive is your friend. ---
**Author:** ![Forsion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5e9695/32.png) [@Forsion](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Forsion)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 10:41am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/braced-vs-ads-autoguns/87597/13 "2023-11-22T10:41:48Z")
> [@Kiminaze](#): > > basically lose the benefit instantly if you are using a fast firing weapon and not using 2 or 3 stamina curios Thats why its good on braced autogun. You dont have to use braced mode, unlike ads. Thats why i like to turn it into ,more accurate burst option, that you can use occasionally, when you need the most. And precision strike as only alternative will not do much, it’s roughly 7% more weak spot damage, which you can’t even really aim. Anyway, use what you like. ---
**Author:** ![Phracatti](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/phracatti/32/69579_2.png) [@Phracatti](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Phracatti)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2023, 3:31pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/braced-vs-ads-autoguns/87597/14 "2023-11-22T15:31:56Z")
Braced gun is more suited for zealot with its higher burst, stagger, cleave and close range dmg, swapping to dispatch the disabler coming to get you in the middle of the horde. More importantly, it retains accuracy on the move much better than infantry ones. Agri is superior to the other two due to the simple fact it has “stopping power” instead “collateral”, which nets you extra dmg instead suppression only. The overall dmg output would be nearly identical on all 3 around 80k without. They are also rather accurate if you swap out the horrible default reticule. I use the shotgun slug special one, and can kill snipers comfortably unless they are sitting at 40m sniping distance. ---
**Author:** ![system](https://europe1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/uploads/fatshark/original/3X/3/1/319a2f41b73f03a4d9360defbe43058888a33c8c.png) [@system](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/system)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2023, 3:32pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/braced-vs-ads-autoguns/87597/15 "2023-11-29T15:32:10Z")
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