[BIG BALANCE PATCH] Saltzpyre

This topic is aimed at providing feedback for a possible Big Balance Patch.

Please when providing feedback, provide the career on which you provide feedback or the weapons in their full name (XSword is certainly Shorter than Executioner Sword, but it’s for clarity purpose).

Also try to keep your arguments shorts and to the point.
For example :

I do think Unchained lacks a specific role :

  • She have no means of control, therefore she’s not a real tank.
  • She lacks …

Other topics arounds thoses “Big Balance Patch” :
Topic for Kruber is here.
Topic for Bardin is here.
Topic for Kerrilian is here.
Topic for Sienna is here.

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Is there any clue as to when such a patch occurs or even if it is about to occur at all?

Nope. It’s just discussing things before any balance patch occurs. So it can help bringing specific issues.

After July because of vacation. If they intend to still hold it over summer that’s August and September to look forward to.

Edit: WELL LOOKIT THAT

Is this official? Did I miss some comm from FS about balancing?

The last few Grail Knight threads were derailed by dudes bringing up Witch Hunter Captain. So now I have to know what y’all want changed.

He’s my favorite class in game but also a towering behemoth compared to his 1.0 self. With the way the game is now and how well his damage output and defenses are, plus his stellar arsenal, should he be a base 100 hp class or do his talents like Fervency need adjusting?

No, it isn’t. They said that IF POSSIBLE that would make some kind of balance patch in the next few months. But it is not set in stone. And as far as I know they did not specify on what exactly they want to balance like weapons or traits or talents. I honestly can’t imagine them touching everything at once. It would end in a meltdown.

It was mentioned in a stream.

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Thanks. It says balancing overhaul in summer, but without touching weapons. Seems interesting.

WHC related.

Yeah, at the moment he’s powerful. Too powerful ? I don’t know. He stays a squishy melee dps. But he’s certainly on top on the meta.

Bounty Hunter is my main Saltzpyre class. I greatly enjoy him up to Cata, where he kinda tops off due to the HP scaling (as in, it takes too many shots to kill things above Cata to be fun)

My concern with BH relates to his ult. I don’t know if it’s intentional that double-shotted triggers the cooldown reduction on headshot twice, but it means that a BH with a concentration potion and steady aim can absolutely obliterate monsters (permanently stunned while getting BH ults in the face) and even some Lords. Skarrik in particular is a joke that lasts 2 seconds, Bödvarr dies quickly as well. It’s also decently effective against Deathrattler.
Only Nurglestew, Rasknitt and Nurgloth hold up well to it. Nurgloth is the only boss whose resistance against this ult is actually too high, it barely tickles him and he teleports away anyway.

Basically, having a BH and a concentration potion (strenght too to some extent) trivializes monsters and half of the lord fights.
It’s not that bad on Cata due to the increased HP, but on Legend and below it’s practically a joke.

Either prevent the double cooldown reduction or give the affected monsters/lords more “damage spike” resistance where necessary. (I don’t know if you guys can set this per difficulty and damage source)
The ult shouldn’t be nerfed to hell just to prevent this particular combination, but the peak damage potential really needs to be looked at.

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Copied my thoughts on WHC from another thread.

  • Make Killing Shot not insta kill targets after a certain distance for ranged attacks. Just after the start of the drop off range for the Rapier’s Pistol special could be an acceptable distance. Same treatment for Deathknell.

  • Buff Riposte, nerf Flense (I’m no Flense expert so I’m not sure by how much). Riposte could be combined with Deathknell (need a third talent, can’t think of a good one myself atm). At the very least it should bring parry with it. Parrying while the Riposte buff is active should reset the buff timer.

  • Buff Templars Knowledge (perhaps a 10% increase for WHC, and only a 5% increase for team mates?)

  • Reduce Unending Hunt’s cooldown reduction to 30%. Make Fervency lasts for 5 or 4 seconds. Add a 15% attack speed buff to I Shall Judge You All and/or increase radius by 50%.

  • Nerf Cast Away to 30% Stamina Recovery on pushing an enemy.

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I hate to only ask for a nerf in here, but Zealot’s Power effecting his Ranged Weapons is a bit broken. Even Unchained only benefits from Melee Power for her Passive.

Ok, give Falc an extra Stamina Shield (2 stamina).

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:thinking: what if Zealot had his base hp lowered and his stacks were changed to be percentage based.

Hear me out, you know how when people make complaint threads about how not having the choice to refuse healing from Waystalker or Grail Knight? And the obvious answer to that is to get hit more?

I was thinking, having to purposely wait to get beat up from 180 health takes a long time and requires Zealot to quell his murderous lust while searching for an enemy to hit him enough before a teammate kills it. It’s quite the hassle.

What if we just took a whole 80 hp away from his base, tweaked his meta Holy Fortitude talent to cap at 50% increased healing instead of 90%, and maybe shaved 10 seconds off of Iron Heart?

Just cut out the whole process of having to wait for damage when we can drop his health to squish levels and make him actually risky to play?

I think BH’s second row of talents could use some work.

20% extra crit damage on/after crits is great, but it’s all anyone uses because the other options are bad. Keep this one, but adjust the other options.

+25% power when out of ammo has no business being on a class that can get guaranteed procs of scrounger and/or fire ranged once for free every 10 seconds. And it especially doesn’t make sense to have this talent if you consider that BH can get this same power boost from the Hunter trait and still have ammo to shoot. Remove this talent and replace it with something ranged oriented, like +25% reload speed (which would help revitalize the volley bow, and provide some kind of synergy with BoP on BH).

+Power based on magazine size sounds okay on paper, but the bonus is typically too small to be useful. The xbow gets basically nothing from this, and it’s the same with the repeater’s measly 8%. The BoP is helped out a bit by this talent, but not enough to be worthwhile. The volley bow gets a decent boost, but is generally saltz’s worst weapon. Either remove this talent, or massively increase the bonus to the tune of 2% per ammo instead of 1% (this is another change that would help revitalize the volley bow and provide BH synergy with BoP, while not affecting the already very strong xbow, and providing an acceptable boost to the repeater).

Beyond all of this, all BH might need is a change to his ult talents. Maybe make double-shotted cap at 40% returned cooldown and then buff his shotgun ult to be viable, and then you would have 3 competitive choices.

3 Likes
  • Weight of Fire should just be swapped to % power equal to the current total ammo pool you have. The more ammo you spend, the less bonus you get.

This is what I originally thought it did, and was really, really surprised when FS thought that 1% damage on the crossbow was amazing.

  • Repeater pistol alt fire needs to be buffed. It should not get such a reduced damage per pellet as it does. It’s barely worth using, even with BH.
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As the topic about Saltzpyre is not too old, moved it into Big Balance Beta from there.


Bounty Hunter :

  • Last Shot Power (the new talent) is pretty much worthless. 10 seconds of increase of attack speed and power when you’re on your last ammo won’t do much. Especially since Saltzpyre currently don’t really have a “low ammo” weapon and given its passive, the lowest ammo one have still a lot of ammo.

(It is meant as a combo with scrounger but it is probably too limitating for what it does)

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At this time I cannot say WHC is any more powerful than Kruber Merc.

Frankly the two are equal in power. Dead even, kind of mirror images of each other with different approaches. And its good they are actually balanced against each other so well.

So I’ll go into the Beta specific changes I’ve used at this point. Falchion and Volley Crossbow.

I took these out for a spin.

Falchion: The increase in body AP value on normal strikes is pretty pitiful, but then again it doesn’t hold as much weight anymore with Flense now a talent. In general its still not as good as the Rapier. What this really needed was the old values against Super Armor on light strikes.

Rapier’s downside is against CWs, because you can’t kill with instant crit. This change doesn’t really make up for it because you can do dual headshots with Axe/Falch. So if you want to do Armor you’d still take Axe/Falch. If you want to do anything else… well its still Rapier.

I do detect though, that it might make Storm Vermin a little easier since you don’t need headshots.

But I still can’t say I would pick this over either Axe/Falch or Rapier on WHC. If it had AP on light strikes on Super Armor though… that would be a different story.

Volley Crossbow: This is actually fun to use now. With the increase in Penetration for horde clear you wipe out entire waves with it. Its back to what it used to be. Not quite as good against specials as the Brace of Pistols, but i’d say equal to them against Mini-Bosses. There’s only one problem… They may have added too much Ammo to it. Maybe add about half that.

Reason: The advantages of Bounty Hunter over WHC is that you can use the charged shots on the ranged weapons to get your ammo back with scrounger on BH guaranteed crit every 10 seconds… but with the additional Ammo, you also never run out on WHC even using a lot of charged shots. I like the added penetration as its just what BH needed to make this weapon shine again… but you may have added too much ammo which makes it a little overdone on WHC.

Still at the end of the day when I used it on WHC, I really could not say which was better to use… Brace of Pistols or Volley.

The Rapier’s full charge does more damage to Chaos Warriors on headshot than the Axe & Falchion’s heavy. I feel like I’m missing something regarding the Axe & Falchion, are the heavies faster than the Rapier’s?

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