[BIG BALANCE PATCH] Bardin

My issues with RV so far:

  • the changes didnt adress the poor talent choices avaliable at lvl 10 (25%power no ammo; 2%cd on ult when reload; 5%attack speed)
  • lvl 25 talents seem so “neutral” in the sens that while beeing unique they don’t bring anything “extra” compared to other career that would make you think " oh yeah this seems good i think i ll pick X career for this ". Only the lvl 20 talents give me that feel.
  • Lvl 25 talents could use a bit more creativity especialy the 8% attack speed on ult talent.

All in all i feel like the only thing that makes RV RV is his passive and the lvl 20. I hate his career ability it just doesnt syngergies at all with his kit. I like his interactions with specials.

Since he gets attack speed in spades now anyways, maybe replace his 5% AS talent for a hit point increase at the cost of reload speed or something? To make him more lean into a melee role?

2 Likes

I like that, instead of a straight buff to his HP, you could make it a talent to give him 125 base hp.

1 Like

Not sure what I think about the 2H Axe yet. It still feels like a very unsafe weapon, even with Slayer.
It’s definitely much better, but I’m not sure that it’s enough. A few possible improvements would be: Upping the light attacks base damage (they simply do much less damage than 2H Hammer), upping the cleave on the Heavy attacks, and upping the stagger on the heavy attacks just a bit so the weapon is a bit safer.

1 Like

I disagree that it’s “very unsafe”, sure, it’s still 2Hander with the dodge that comes with that, so you can’t run freely, but linesman on heavy and push strike did wonders. Especially for push strike, since that’s your best option if you’re in trouble. All 3 careers can use the axe well. Slayer’s got ton of attack speed, movement speed or additional stagger depending on your talents. IB has that burst of attack speed, additional stamina and stamina regen. RV gets movement speed on par with Slayer and decent amount of attack speed with ale.

2 Likes

RV talents/re-work suggestions.

Melee: RV needs access to “THP on Kill” and “Smiter” so that 1H axe can be used on a viable build.

No Dawdling (10% movement speed) is dull. I’d suggest replacing it with something potentially more useful - maybe a talent similar to WHC’s Eternal Guard passive so that RV can block for longer when cornered.

RV is just kinda weak and a lot more boring than other ranged classes. I know he’s intended to a “support” class. I’d like to see his support characteristics be amplified to make him stronger but still unique.

First, I’d remove the “Share and Share Alike” talent the old one (ammo for RV when other’s pick it up) is just uninspired. The new Ale bottle mechanic is just a stupid gimick that gets old quickly - if one player picks up all the bottles he out distances everyone and people get mad; or, in a cooperative team people try and share the bottles out evenly and the whole thing just slows down the game as we are trying to figure out who’s buff runs out first. Honestly, this talent isn’t worth the aggravation.

Ranger’s Parting Gift - Reworked (THP on ult) - I HATE this! It’s very useful, but back in a previous patch (1. something) the temp health on ranged kills was eliminated because it was all reward with no risk and most THP on ult talents were also axed (Waystalker, Huntsman…). Now these THP on ult talents are creeping back into the game. I have been playing in a party with RV, Unchained, and Mercenary that all have THP on ult and it’s just ridiculous how often one or more of us can spam their ult to avoid any kind of peril. It’s lazy. Ranger Veteran shouldn’t be a cut-rate Mercenary. His original Parting Gift talent (not consume bomb on ult) was way better and made the Ranger Veteran more unique. If you want to increase RV’s survivability then increase his base health and ditch this talent. The new Ranger’s Ambush talent (8% attack speed) seems similarly boring - a moderate and temporary buff to group attack speed isn’t a unique selling point for Ranger Veteran than I can muster any excitement for.

HOW to make RV unique and more powerful:

Tier 20 talents:

  1. Eliminate Share and Share Alike.
  2. Split Scavenger into 2 talents: Scavenger(Bomb) and Scavenger(Potion) and increase the drop rate from specials to 30-40%. So one of RV’s key talents is less at the mercy of RNG.
  3. Keep Grungni’s Cunning unchanged.

Tier 30 talents:

  1. Keep Surprise Guest.
  2. Spilt old Ranger’s Parting Gift into 2 talents - Parting Gift (Potion) and Parting Gift (Bomb) - when these ults are active a potion or bomb, respectively can be used once without being consumed.

If the RV has the Scavenger(Potion), Parting Gift(Potion) talents and Proxy trait. Potions would drop with a measure of predicatbility and he will be able to buff the party frequently for speed or strength or ult regeneration. He’d become a really valuable member of the team, but still maintain his unique identity.

CHANGE DROP LOCATIONS:

Right now ammo, bombs, and potions drop where a special dies. If you shoot a blightstormer half way across the map then basically the RVs talents are wasted because people won’t pick-up the item. Even shooting specials at medium range is bad because going to pick up the potion that drops just slows the game down. So, make drops occur at the LOCATION OF THE SHOOTER not the special. It’ll speed the game up and will guarantee that the person that expends the ammo to kill the special gets the drop if they want it. There is already a mechanic in the game for this. When the Grail Knight uses the Virtue of the Penitent talent the strength pots it generates always drop on his location.

If there is any chance of other careers getting a look over later on, can we talk about slayers damage reduction talent row. Surely I don’t even need to mention why barge is no competition on this row, but sadly I think oblivious to pain is also no competition.

I have read this suggestion somewhere else before but can we replace one of these talents with one that gives 10% DR per enemy hit, up to 30% total DR. Grimnirs focus still gives higher total DR but myself, and I think alot of other people, would pick this new talent over it in a heartbeat.

1 Like

I like the way it sounds, but it’s also a very “zealot” kind of talent too. I can’t read today, plz be patient.

And Barge needs to be changed, the flavor is there but the implementation is terrible, at best it just causes slave rats to flinch. Might be getting into the limitations of the game mechanics where the only way to make it work is make it a mini-footknight charge and that’d be too strong.

I’ll fight to keep this talent at all costs. This hill may be small and smell weird, but it’s the hill I choose to die on :triangular_flag_on_post:

It’s my most useful talent for QP, nothing helps avoid friendly fire like being able to put a football field between you and randos so you can blast zerkers and maulers before sprinting back to them with the rest of the horde in tow :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

Well they ARE both melee focused blood-crazed berserkers :open_mouth:

I simply consider the proposed change to offer some quality of life for 1h builds. Yes I know people have made the argument before that to ‘just use heavy attacks’ but the way I see it is different weapon attacks have different uses, and it simply feels bad to use an inappropriate attack on a 5s timer.

1 Like

Yeah I really do think it’d be a great idea. I guess the only issue is how hard enemies hit and how damage avoidant Slayer should be, so it might be difficult to get the defense stacks (hence, it sounding more zealoty than slayery).

I still don’t hate it, gives Barkskin like protection against burst and gas and still leaves you vulnerable to big attacks. Hookt On Fonics certified comment.

Just to clarify, grimnirs focus talent can already give slayer a near permanent 40% damage reduction. I’m suggesting a competing talent that only gives 30% damage reduction.

There is however a talent to increase stacks. So this would be a 40 % damage reduction simply for left-clicking.

EDIT: You didnt speak about stacks actually. So my mistake. Still a strange talent to chose just hits when stacks exist.

You’d be sacrificing Adrenaline Surge which is an insane talent.

1 Like

Sure, I just wanted to point it out. I am a bit baffled anyway why the half naked dwarf has this much damage reduction.

Actually, is WHC the only class without damage reduction … okay I checked and if I can count (which I wouldn’t count on) then there are really just three (Edit: Forgot Grail Knight so four …) classeswithout damage reduction O.o Why the **** has Battle Wizard 30 % damage reduction and Pyromancer too. That should be at best 20 % or lower. If you are dishing out damage like crazy you should drop like a fly >.<

1 Like

On top of having excellent mobility and crowd control on a 40s cooldown ult. Yeah it just seems a bit uninspired to have so many careers with just flat damage reduction. Guess they just couldn’t think of what else to put there, but at the very least they could have offered more dodge distance so that you have at least a 2nd type of defensive talent. I really enjoy the way Huntsman works with Burst of Enthusiasm though, actually a very unique type of damage sustain, lets me build up and sustain tHP throughout the mission while still being fragile.

1 Like

F*ck me I completely misread his suggestion. I thought he was saying a stacking defense talent per damage taken :confounded:

Yeah Slayer used to have that exact talent.

The fact that the extra stack talent exists is exactly why I didn’t suggest tying it to his trophy hunter passive. Of course doing so would require picking 2 talents to achieve the same 40% DR as grimnirs focus, which may or may not be a fair balance choice. At the least I think 30% DR just for left clicking is not unreasonable on for his current kit.

The simple answer is that he just feels quite alot worse to play without any damage reduction. If you were looking for a lore perspective I assume it has something to do with dwarven rage making them much tougher. I know there was at least one example in the lore where a dwarf came back from the dead simply because of how angry he was. Otherwise when compared to the fully armored ironbreaker he is still much softer.

The old oblivious to pain used to give flat 50% damage reduction at all times with no conditions :sleepy:

GREAT AXE
Berserk damage is surprizingly low compared to other damage values. Lesser than the armored damage for example which is odd.
The same with the 2h hammer but less so.

Ranger vet melee weapon feedback:

Melee on ranger vet (that isn’t dual hammers) is just too slow. Even 1 handed weapons without building specifically towards attack speed, and thus giving up ranged damage, feel bad with low overall damage output. Often times I’ll start a swing, only to get hit before the swing connects from an enemy that wasn’t winding up to attack when I started. Combined with no smiter talent makes it even worse.

1h axe: takes two shots to kill most infantry, no cleave, fairly weak pushes. The change to dodges way back make axe horrible to use. Trying to spot dodge stacked stormvermin, or a stacked storm and slaverat ends up being a dangerous maneuver because they track you long distance anyway.

Suggestion In vermintide 1 axe was a great weapon. It wasn’t artificially slotted into an armor damage only weapon, the focus was control. Pushes on axe were extremely powerful to break up a group, then pick off important targets first. Give axe a better push/push combo to make some room. It doesn’t need cleave that it doesn’t have if it has extremely tight control.

1h hammer Full disclosure, I’m bad with this weapon. I’m also not sure the purpose, as it exists in a worse horde clear/control than dual hammers and worse armor damage than 1h axe, offering a rather weak middle ground between the two. On slayer it’s fine with high attack speed, but again RV that specifically lacks AS over better property and talent options, you’re mostly left to push attack spam, mostly moving hordes around instead of doing much direct damage. Also, since it’s a mace, why does it clank off armor? Isn’t the point of hammers to crunch armor?

Suggestion to offset it from the weapons it competes to be the middle of, hammer needs better cleave attacks against armor and less clanks. It’s a crowd control weapon, with the ability to crowd control only slaverats. Mixed hordes on cata this weapon just becomes a clank machine. Or don’t buff it, like I said I’m bad.

Hammer, axe and shield 2nd heavy attacks, war pick charged heavy attacks deal more damage against armor than against berserkers which is strange.

1 Like
Why not join the Fatshark Discord https://discord.gg/K6gyMpu