BH Bounty Hunting Talent Locked and Loaded Times

So I’ve been really curious as to how much the cooldown gets lowered by each stack of Bounty Hunting, because my initial thought of the talent was, “holy crap that could be SO good,” then it swapped to “ok maybe this is gonna be really bad.” then I played a match with it and I hated it. so I timed each cooldown after getting another stack. Each number isn’t exact, but its really close, unless my reaction time is just really slow. Also I went back in and did it all again with 10% CDR, (which, in the case of BH, his ability is 70 second cooldown and 10% of that is 7 seconds, so 70 seconds - 7 = 63 seconds. Here you go.

WITHOUT CDR
70 seconds (0) 64 seconds (1) 59 seconds (2) 55 seconds (3) 50 seconds (4)
47 seconds (5) 44 seconds (6) 41 seconds (7) 39 seconds (8) 37 seconds (9)
35 seconds (10) 33 seconds (11) 31 seconds (12) 30 seconds (13) 29 seconds (14)
28 seconds (15) 27 seconds (16) 26 seconds (17) 25 seconds (18) 24 seconds (19)
23 seconds (20) 22 seconds (21) 22 seconds (22) 21 seconds (23) 20 seconds (24)
20 seconds (25) 19 seconds (26) 19 seconds (27) 18 seconds (28) 17 seconds (29)
17 seconds (30) 17 seconds (31) 17 seconds (32) 17 seconds (33) 17 seconds (34)
17 seconds (35) 17 seconds (36)
WITH 10% CDR
63 seconds (0) 58 seconds (1) 53 seconds (2) 48 seconds (3) 45 seconds (4)
42 seconds (5) 39 seconds (6) 37 seconds (7) 35 seconds (8) 33 seconds (9)
32 seconds (10) 30 seconds (11) 28 seconds (12) 26 seconds (13) 25 seconds (14)
24 seconds (15) 23 seconds (16) 22 seconds (17) 21 seconds (18) 21 seconds (19)
20 seconds (20) 19 seconds (21) 19 seconds (22) 18 seconds (23) 18 seconds (24)
17 seconds (25) 17 seconds (26) 16 seconds (27) 16 seconds (28) 16 seconds (29)
16 seconds (30) 15.99 seconds (31) 15.97 seconds (32)

I hate and love this, because the talent fits so well thematically with what BH is. But at the same time you could just take Double Shotted and double the damage pretty much and get 80% cool down back, and if you add 10% cdr to that and land a headshot your ability is on a 7 second cooldown. The talent suffers so badly from RNG, the amount of time it takes to stack it, and in the end its not much of a pay off anyway. Why pick the talent for a measly payoff when you could take doubleshotted and get the rewards from the beginning of the match?

(i know its a beta and its not final, just mainly want to hear others opinion on the stacking of the talent.)
<3

6 Likes

They keep putting cool down regen in the game and it’s a garbage property. Idk what the purpose is or why they chose to start using regen over reduction, but it’s just not impactful. You mentioned 90% cool down reduction taking your 90 second ult down to 7 seconds. To do the same with cool down regen would require like 1300% cdregen.

1 Like

Well, first thing first. There are several people which repeatedly said that Double Shotted should not give 80 % of the cooldown back. I don’t even know why this is still a thing in this BBB. It is simply not balanced and upping the other choices to make this “competitive” is just the wrong direction. Double shotted should give back 40 % of the cooldown at best. Maybe there are some coding limitations.

Other than that it would be interesting to see the total amount of time it would need to reach the lowest point for this talent so:

  • Without CDR: 16 min 52 s
  • With CDR: 15 min 10 s
  • Plus GK: lower

Both if spammed continuously. This would mean at the end of most maps or at least later part when the more challenging events appear. I am honestly not a fan of active skill spam with any talent (and we very well could need some longer cooldowns) but this could be okay. Although the point where you reach half cooldown is a lot earlier.

  • Without CDR: ~ 9 min
  • With CDR: ~ 8 min
  • Plus GK: lower

That is pretty fast and has the benefit of not needing headshots. The talent itself is good if you want to go for the spammy style. The problem is Double Shotted. Nerf that cooldown reduction.

EDIT: Or we are being mean and Double Shotted gets it stagger removed. Would like to test it out to see how it impacts the active talent. Hm, after more thinking. This would have an influence on boss monster. Would make no difference against the rest. So down with the cooldown reduction.

2 Likes

yeah, the 80% cooldown on double shotted is way too good and shouldn’t be that high AT ALL.

5 Likes

I think it’d be great if they nerfed it so people would realize how poor of a spot BH is in. People think high monster damage is super valuable so ults like BH always skew opinions to OP, regardless of how weak a class is outside of the ult (looking at GK).

1 Like

Just wondering why is he in a bad spot?

I’ve always felt he has been very close to a balanced spot but just lacked build diversity, which the developers are starting to work on with the recent changes.

3 Likes

From my perspective he has perhaps the worst thp generation of all careers, which is a pretty big handicap. Also when comparing him to other ranged careers he has a harder time getting out of a tough spot. Ranger/huntsman have stealth, waystalker/pyro homing ult can blow up multiple elites instantly in a fairly wide arc.

He’s just not as good as any other ranged career and outside of monster dps via ult, idk why you’d ever bring one to any difficulty. Assuming you’re trying to make a try hard comp.

Edit: crossbow BH is a decent sniper. But overall it’s worse than elf sniper or BW. Also, why would you bring a squishy sniper when WHC is better at killing elites and has better special BPs?

hmm maybe I’ve been a little blind to the extent of his capabilities because I’ve focused more on flawed/inconsistent careers like RV rather than underpowered ones.

If you wanna make a thread for BH changes go for it, I’ll be down to discuss potential changes.


Changing crit/hs thp to cleave thp would be a good start.
Tweaking Buckshot or one of the ult talents to provide more utility/CC might offer a good alternative to monster DPS.

Really unsure about his talents though, his passive is consistent, but very on rails. Melee kill reset provided control over it, crits on demand assuming trash fodder is near. Sadly it’s gone.

BH is quite noob friendly, (forgiving aim wise) but other careers can just reach one shot BPs just by hitting the head, basically the guaranteed crit loses value as a player gets better?

Just trying to figure out what BH’s core issue is, what in particular needs changing or buffing.

I’m surprised at how rare BW bolt is considering how many elites it can rack up + it’s cleave.

The truth though is that aim bot WHC with BoP is the best sniper. More like brace of sniper rifles.

Well for Bounty Hunter, it’s arguably because specials don’t have enough health, so the crit damage is wasted since they all die with headshots anyway. Even WHC at point blank with BoP can one shot headshot most of them.

The fact that Bounty Hunter also can’t control when they shoot a crit doesn’t help.
On top of that, the base ult isn’t great.

BH’s ammo sustain outside of Volley and the Crossbow isn’t that good either. It’s workable, but it pales in comparison to something like Huntsmen with the Repeater Handgun, which just can’t run out of ammo.

I personally don’t think BH is that bad relative to the game balance, but when compared to other ranged careers it’s a reasonable assessment.

I do miss the melee kill reset talent, but it would have been broken with melee kill reload.

1 Like

My biggest issue with Bounty Hunting (aside from the whack way it puts bounties on enemies that aren’t even spawned), is that it’s just straight up less effective than the old Just Reward. In practice, by the end of a map, Bounty Hunting gets my cooldown to 35-40 seconds it seems.

Meanwhile, with Just Reward, you could fire your ult when blessed shots is up, and immediately get 15% cooldown back. Then 10 seconds later you get another free 15%, then another, and another. So after 30 seconds you would get 60% back and be ready to fire your ult again. Not only is this a shorter effective cooldown than Bounty Hunting, but it’s more reliable to use AND you get the full benefit right at the start of the map instead of having to wait the entire map to eventually get down to half cooldown.

3 Likes

Agreed. I actually used to run the previous talent because I am lazy and terrible, and BH is great for a bodyshot build. The new version is simply worse in every way, why do I need to put in work trying to find specific enemies that my allies may or may not kill, in order to get a WORSE version of the previous talent that was already considered strictly worse than double shotted?

3 Likes

Lack of an aoe option really. Snipers are kinda useless characters to bring for the reasons you mentioned. Squishy special killers when melee can do the job just as well or better without being a liability when you get pinched. What makes ranged valuable is they have good wave clear which can relieve pressure off of a group. BW is the exception Bc She can simultaneously be one of the highest utility I and toughest frontline characters by taking the double ult and flame sword with foot shield.

Double-Shotted is one of the only talents that make a BH valuable. Most people I’ve seen who play Cataclysm regularly almost never choose BH anyway, so how about we buff the other talents in that row instead of nerfing the good ones?

In regards to the OP:
I also think the bounty picture (the status effect) really needs to have some text on it or something, because right now I find it quite hard to differentiate which pictures represent which enemy.

1 Like

80% is an absurd amount that makes it nearly impossible to make the other talents on that row competitive. BH is the closest thing I have to a main, and I very strongly feel that CDR needs a nerf. If you think BH needs buffs, this one talent will stop anyone agreeing with you (for good reason), so either way 80% CDR has gotta go. That’s not even going into how much harder this 1 talent makes the task of balancing bosses.

2 Likes

I can’t see how this statement can be true. As long as something isn’t a “win mission automatically game” it is certainly possible to make other options as appealing with enough of a buff.
For example, you could make Buckshot destroy an entire horde with infinite damage and infinite cleave, and it would easily surpass Double Shotted which is basically only useful for deleting monsters, which really isn’t that big of a deal with a good comp and skilled players.

I do agree that nerfing that talent might cause other buffs to the career as a whole, which I’m in favor of.

Of course. I should have been more clear. It’s not possible without making a row of pretty overpowered talents.

Yes it is mostly situational to monsters, but if anything that’s all the more reason to get rid of it. In a large variety of use cases you wouldn’t even feel the difference, it’s a win win.

In that one niche though, it is currently absurd. A conc pot alone give you enough CDR to fire the Ult again before the boss can even recover from staggering. That’s stupid. Land the first headshot and it’s basically a free chain that only ends when the conc pot does or the boss dies, usually the latter. Alternatively, even without a conc pot you can run 10% CDR on trinket and have a, what, 9 second? cooldown on your Ult when you head shot the boss? On an Ult that staggers bosses? I’m sorry, that shouldn’t exist.

2 Likes

70 second cooldown, 80 percent back of that leaves you with 14 seconds CD and if you take 10% CDR you have a 7 second cooldown if you land a headshot

1 Like

Reworking it to spawn a guaranteed highlighted (e.g yellow outline) elite every 30 seconds would be much better for consistency sake and provide some synergy with 20% ammunition on elite kills (While out of ammo).

Some players aren’t happy with cooldown rate, what if the rewards were changed?

If an ally kills the highlighted elite, Bounty Hunter gains 10% permanent cooldown rate
If Bounty Hunter kills the highlighted elite, he gains 10% permanent cooldown rate as well as immediate cooldown reduction.
Still not sure about numbers, this talent is inconsistent right now but has silly potential.

Just for comparison sake, old Just Reward could effectively reduce Locked and Loaded to about 33 seconds.

1 Like

This!! This is exactly how i expected it to work, not giving you a random picture buff (where you have to guess which kind of rat its even supposed to be). It would also be a solution to the problem, that it often gives targets that dont/cant even exist on that map right now.

I would like it to actually be cooldown reduction instead of regen.

Ive thought about it a lot and think this would be a balanced approach to the lvl 30 talents:
First of all remove stagger from sniper bullets, but not from the shotgun pellets
Give shield penetration and heavy linesman to shotgun pellets

Bounty Hunting:

  • colored outline over a random existing enemy. If BH kills him +2% cooldown reduction up to 80% (40 completed bounties)

Double shotted:

  • Keep as is (but with the removed stagger)

Buckshot:

  • Increase pelletcoubt per gun by 5 (30 pellets overall) reduce cooldown by 60%

This way Bountyhunting will slowly decreases ult cooldown to 20% (14s/7s with 10% cdr from trinket) this may sound extreme, but is justifiable as the average game takes about 30 min.
Max stacks would be achievable at earliest 20 minutes in. But often you will miss targets because someone else kills the target or you are incapacitated/dead. (Some maps can be done in less than 20 min)
While you get max 80% CDR, in reality it will be lower for the end event of most games.

Double shotted is high risk/ high reward IMO. If you miss the headshot, you got 70s/63s. So on Headshot 14s/7s. With removal of stagger from the sniper bullet boss stunlock is removed to balance the high CDR.
(Would alternatively nerf to 30-35% per Headshot making it 28s/21s - 21s/14s)
Double shotted is only usefull vs Monster and way overkill on anything else, so the strong CDR is justified as reward for headshots

Buckshot is the antihorde/bersi/Rasknitt/Nurgloth skill.
As the antihorde solution the reduction to 28s/21s is quite justified (looking at HM with bleed vs Horde as comparison)
With increased pelletcount its decent vs armored elites as well, turning it into an effective anti(mixed)horde ult along the line of GKs virtue of confidence.

Thus resulting in choice between

  • decent overall damage ult, but ever faster as the map progresses
  • high risk (needs Headshot) high reward(low CD) single target Damage
  • low cooldown anti horde/elite ult

I think this is what FS originally had in mind, but didnt execute correctly so that double shotted overshadowed the other two options.

Edit: fixed some spacing and spelling mistakes

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