[BBB Saltzpyre BH]

I still see no point in using the volley xbow. It’s worthless in close quarters because unless you’re in front, you’re almost guaranteed to hit a team mate and we all know how some people get about that. Not to mention, if you’re in front, why are you playing BH? Right mouse should zoom maybe half of how the regular xbow does and alt fire shhould shoot the volley. The volley should be tighter together or changed to fire like Kerillian’s xbow. There are just far better options in every aspect with BH.

The repeater pistol should do the same amount of damage as the brace of pistols. The barrels are the same length and width. Slow down the regular fire speed of the repeater and don’t touch BoP. RP gets the shotgun blast, BoP gets to shoot fast.

The new talents, again, not really useful.

Open wounds should be a bleed.

Last shot power is pointless. Between all the ammo littered around the maps and the ammo sustain you can get with BH, you’re most likely not going to run out unless your team is just snatching it all up.

Movement speed buff, pointless.

Melee reload seems like it’s not even working

Buckshot still feels like it’s not even doing anything.

There’s probably more but my brain is fried from hours of playing legend with weapons and a class I haven’t used and played since before Boganhaffen and the stress from randos I was playing with having conniption fits because I wasn’t playing good enough for their liking.

“Open wounds should be a bleed”

Now there is where I take issue. Open wounds is a massive single target damage spike, and is necessary for boosting repeater pistol’s damage high enough to one shot chaos warriors (prior to BBB at least, I don’t know how much the armor damage buff changes things).

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Volley crossbow is Saltzpyres’ horde clearing ranged weapon. Straight up infinite ammo, strong horde clear, really solid special killing power and arguably overpowered.

Repeater pistol can shoot 4x as fast, and why would you want to normalize weapons like this and make them feel samey? I honestly don’t see the point of this.

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I don’t know who you are but I do know that pretty much everything in your post is completely wrong. BH in his best shape for now and I cant even think about more, then I have here on beta. All the changes seems very useful for me and others who touched him on Cata.

Wrong. New passive works great if you wanna hit as much BP as it’s possible.

I suppose you’re talking about Necessery and its awfully great perk especially in sinergy with new reload.

You must be kidding. This perk gives save and survivability to your whole team.

It’s just blasts a big hole in everything but bosses. It can clear chaos wave with berzers and maulers in some tight corridor. Crit hit still can oneshot CW pretty easily.

Summary.
IMO you just cant even imagine that every class should have different builds and playstyles and can fit different roles in team. You think BH should be completely ranged class with no melee in game about melee. He allready have strong fully ranged build which aint changed at all and even after beta everyone will be able to play it. BBB brings us new build for closecombat only and new possibilities to tweak your defence and offence in multiple directions. You can be horde killer, elite killer or boss killer and now you can also choose between fully ranged and half melee apperances. For now, IMO, BH in his best shape since first BBB and THP rework or even beta.

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Ok I agree with pretty much everything else you said, but pretty sure this is straight wrong. Haven’t run it extensively, but point blanking a CW with it in Legend certainly didn’t kill him, so I can’t imagine it can do it in Cata. Buckshot is legitimately quite weak, though I would like to see some number for it. No doubt its damage numbers for armour are highly unimpressive.

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I do think, that fully loaded with 24 additional crit projectiles buckshot can do something dirty to CW and I’ll try to test it today with xbow build for leg and cata, will reply here about results.
Can’t say how good it for now 'cause it’s meant to be a waveclear opportunity for BH with low hordeclear, but melee build have no problems with it even with axe. Maybe something more relying on BoP or xbow with “wounds” and weapon swap buff.

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Okay, just tested. It really can oneshot CW even on cata if you’re trying to play something like BoP ranged build. +7% power, Open wounds, guaranteed crit and 20 extra flechettes. You must hit it with crit only and only in melee range. I don’t know why but ults not affected by melee charges and if it’s kinda ranged BoP build you can take hunter. With hunter it will be much easier to do it. About clear. It clears everything in front of you. Cleave not really good but it’s enough to pass thru multiple marauder on cata. Also it have much wider arc then I remember it was before and those extra bullets really handy 'cause they’re filling free space in you’r cone. In times of BtU I clearly remember it was like 10-15 degrees in front of you, but now it seems to be something around 40-50 degrees. And it’s ain’t difficult to maintain 10-15 extra flecchetes in it since it mostly waveclear and spacecreating ult.

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Loving the BoP DW build with Assassin. It’s pretty damn good.

I’m yet to try it with the ammo build and Hunter, too.

It should be strong for now, I suppose. Dualwield for now gives you much of save and selfhealing and if you prefer Assasin then Blood for money should provide solid healing. But with assasin it seems to be more melee then ranged build and I’d consider takin new “Means” instead of “Wounds” and different ult since your waveclear should be very good with empovered DW and scoring an elite kill to refill your ammo with something but buckshot would be much easier.

Like I said, volley is worthless in close quarters because you are gonna be hitting team mates. On legend and cata, that alone is going to be a huge problem. I assume you know how people are in this game, with most people tripping over each other to run up and go toe to toe with the horde for kills. You’re hindering yourself without having the ability to shoot accurately at long distance. Aside from billhook, pretty much every melee weapon Saltz has is a far more efficient horde clear. So why take volley, when you can take BoP and hit way harder at farther range. I mean it’s just preference really, not trying to argue, I’ve just never liked the weapon and the changes aside from ammo count just don’t cut it for me.

As for repeater pistol, like I said, damage up, speed down. Like the volley, it’s just not worth using when you can take BoP. Getting in a warriors face with a ranged weapon in tantamount to suicide if you miss that shot.

… what? Friendly fire is the least of your worries, you can easily avoid it just like you can with Bluntsman, Hagstalker or Hagshade. Shoot over your teammates, in between gaps, etc. It’s really not that difficult.

I don’t think BH can clear hordes very well, and with WHC it nicely supplements stuff like 1h axe or even rapier. There’s also the fact you don’t have to engage in melee and risk damage, wipe out elites with crit shots, thin the horde as you’re coming in and so on. With BH volley is his crowd clearing tool just like blunderbuss is for HS.

Why? What does that change?

The weapons have different roles, you can’t really compare them like that. You take what you enjoy using and what’s most effective with your loadout or team composition.

What? I don’t even know what to say to this, what kind of point is this?

No, I just think there are far better perks to take other than very situational circumstances that will occur 2 or 3 times per match.

First, don’t tell me what I think. That’s pretty goddamned rude. With almost 1500 hours in the game, the vast majority being PUGs, I have a deep understanding of how people play this game. Unless your everyone on the team is a range heavy class, there is absolutely no need for BH to be used in melee when Saltz already has two classes that are far more suited for melee. Not only are the other 3 people on your team going to be tripping over each other to get in melee, somebody has to keep situational awareness, watch the back and be in a position to revive/rescue or whatever. You can’t effectively do that in melee, that’s how you get a wipe real fast, everyone tunnel visioned on what’s in front of them and nobody notices the huge group of enemies coming up behind the team. The only times I’ve run out of ammo for BH is when I was being silly and wasting it. You don’t even have to try that hard to do it either.

Do you even play this game? Have you not seen that most people are always dancing around while in melee. Trying to shoot past or over 3 people who are running around in circles in tiny hallway is going to consume all your time and when you inevitably hit somebody with FF on accident, they freak out. FF on legend and cata is bad, even on accident, that’s not gonna fly.

Have you tried the two hander yet? Because it’s a freaking lawn mower.

I don’t think I can explain it any clearer. BoP gets to shoot fast, RP gets the shotgun blast. As RP is now, that’s all it’s good for. It does just barely over half the damage BoP does, which means it’s a huge waste of ammo using the regular fire.

Run up to warrior, spin gun, miss for whatever reason, get giant axe buried in your skull. Congratulations, you are now a detriment to the team.

Eh, I’m not the best player, but I got like 8 C3O runs done and some Cataclysm solos.

Or you can decide to not use your ranged weapon in a tiny hallway when there’s 3 people in front of you because its horde clear is not needed and it’s all under control. But you can use it as a horde is coming towards you, before frontliners get in, or in wider areas where there’s gaps to shoot in between, or over your team.

FF is the most miniscule thing in the game. You could have 550 FF by the end of the mission and it wouldn’t matter one bit cause all it would do throughout the mission is chip away some tHP from your 3 teammates. As long as you’re not bursting down your teammates with FF, they’ll be perfectly fine.

Uhh, I really don’t want to get into a phallic measuring contest, but I’ve done Cataclysm Twins and a few C3O runs with it and been using it consistently ever since I’ve started playing the game. Yeah, I think greatsword is a good weapon.

RP also gets more ammo efficiency since you can get 3 shots per crit back from Scrounger, you also shoot way faster with RP meaning you can kill elites and specials at the same speed at least, and the shotgun blast has linesman meaning you can kill several clumped up maulers and berserkers just like a blunderbuss can. I’m not necessarily saying that it’s better than BoP or even equal, BoP is still probably better overall, but repeater isn’t ‘weak’, even before the BBB you can take Scrounger with extra ammo talent on WHC or use it base with BH and you’ll have really strong ammo efficiency. The shotgun blast was only a gimmick for BH since it was so weak. Now with Linesman you can use it more like a blunderbuss (although since I’m away from home I can’t test right now if it can actually clear a decent amount of maulers or berserkers).

Yeah, if you don’t have Scrounger and crit apparently.

How do you get hit by a chaos warrior like that? How can you even miss like that? Why are you even going literally point-blank into a chaos warrior? You know you can dodge? Again, this is ridiculous, I honestly don’t know what kind of point this is.

  • Inspired Shot - (Reworked)
    Melee strikes makes up to the next 6 ranged shots deal 15% more damage. Ranged hits makes up to the next 6 melee strikes deal 15% more damage.

The 15% damage to melee is too little to be impactful, because of how infrequent ranged shots are. This change is essentially nothing more than 15% power to assist ranged weapons in breakpoints, which after this patch is only volley and crossbow, since FS deleted BoP and RP from the game.

This talent should be changed to:

Your next ranged/melee (1 attack) gets a 30-40%~ power boost. This would make the hits more impactful and provide useful breakpoints, and would essentially be much more similar to the original crit reset. Ranged spamming and horde clearning would be unaffected, which is also good.

The problem with having only 15% is that it is essentially unnoticable with melee attacks, because 6 attacks gets consumed in an instant, and the damage is relatively negligible. And lets not forget how much of a pain in the ass it is to get 6 stacks to begin with, apart from the only 2 viable ranged weapons after this patch (Xbow and volley).

Lastly, RP and BoP needs a huge buff in damage against armored units, if crit reset is going to be removed. This is long overdue, because this is the main reason these weapons are gutter trash on all of Saltz careers apart from BH (with BH being added to the list after this patch). RP needs it’s armor damaged bumped up by a minimum 100% against armored, with the BoP getting a tiny bit less.

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The funny thing is it’s actually the opposite. The alt fire does less damage per bullet, and is basically only ever worth using with Prize Bounty, or now with clumped infantry elites/berserkers, but even then you’d think twice if you weren’t running scrounger/prize bounty.

The great irony of the rep pistol is that its iconic move (alt fire) is kinda trash without a very specific build that is questionably worth it.

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The great irony of the rep pistol is that its iconic move (alt fire) is kinda trash without a very specific build that is questionably worth it.

If I am not entirely mistaken, you can kill 3 berserkers in cata now, by just tapping all 8 shots with hunter. And that doesn’t require them to congaline, which is another reason why the heavy linesman “buff” is incredibly insignificant. But that’s another problem altogether.

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30-40% might better reach some breakpoints, but the damage would mostly be wasted because of hordes or you alteady reaching breakpoints through other means.
I think something along the line of 10-20% attackspeed to melee is overall more impactfull than the damage bonus.
The talent as it is right now behaves way too wonky anyway(rapier benefits from both buffs/first stack used sometimes doesnt apply damage/ult gives the same stacks as a melee weapon and god knows what more)

Honestly, i wish they would return it to the old one, as I really loved it for its awesome synergy with rapier and on demand crit.
I dont know why so few people apparantly used it that FS saw the need to change it.

Cant really comprehend why you think BoP and RP are dead. IMO they are quite good with certain talents and power VS X.
I usually play BoP with cruelty hunter 20%scaven/10%chaos (or the other way around)
I oneshot crit bodyshot anything except SV (they need headshot)
And otherwise its 2 bodyshots /3 for SV
It does have weirdly low damage vs CW, I’ll give you that (shouldnt be the superarmor, as wargor still get)
Similar results with the RP. Slap on prize Bounty on top for free shotgun blasts and you‘re golden.

30-40% would provide massive breakpoints, for both melee and ranged. What are you even talking about.

Prized bounty on RP is trash.

Good luck with ammo sustain on BoP with hunter, especially since it’s worse against armor than RP. Lmao

Edit:

Because both are trash without crit reset.

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I can’t say anything about RP, but melee reset isn’t that important for BoP.

Less necessary, now, with the melee reload talent. Just never stop shooting and when you need ammo hit an elite until ded.

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