# Balance; Some feedback on weapons; Train Mission **URL:** \ **Category:** General Discussion\ **Created:** [October 13, 2024, 1:18pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034 "2024-10-13T13:18:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ralendil](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/ralendil/32/108313_2.png) [@Ralendil](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Ralendil)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 9:29am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/21 "2024-10-14T09:29:05Z")
> [@ForumWarrior](#): > > Dueling sword, knife, revolver, plasma: need nerfs. I am not sure of this… Ask yourself if it is the weapon, or if it is the class. Most of the time, the weapon performs good on other classes, and there is just one class that makes it OP. Then, this is not the weapon that needs a nerf, but the ability that makes this weapon OP… Knife and duelling sword, it is duellist (+50% is too much) and shroudield (and not mastered shroudfield 🙄 ). On veteran, precision strikes should also be nerfed (+30% is too much). It is too strong. On psyker, I don’t know… but considering that any good psyker can deal 50% more damages than the average player, there is surely something… or it is their weapons. All the weapons you quoted are in this boat. It is talents of a class that make them OP, not the weapon itself. No need to nerf the weapon… nerf the cause. But for Plasma, it is the cleave. It cleaves too much with a light shot. However, if you do that, it needs more ammo. So maybe make survivalist making 1% ammos on Clip+reserve (and not just reserve) like it has been suggested numerous times. ---
**Author:** ![Jonn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@Jonn](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Jonn)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 10:21am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/22 "2024-10-14T10:21:20Z")
> [@ComradeHX](#): > > assuming sprint cost is the same/depending on weapon This is what I meant with my reply, that while the classes have a pretty much an even starting line in terms of speed, what makes Ogryn seem slower in movement speed is mainly due to popular weapon picks for each class. Add in things such as high mobility ranged weapons that people can use to move around faster, stamina curious, sprint speed efficiency, talents/abilities and things like Ogryns hitbox, that is so large that you would have to move around some obstacles or are unable to vault over some railings without mashing jump button against them. It is not surprising that people feel that Ogryn is slower if you add all this together. > [@ComradeHX](#): > > even without stamina ogryn is still just behind zealot in base sprint speed. It should be equal without stamina, and with stamina Ogryn only falls behind Zealot and Veteran in sprint speed. > [@ComradeHX](#): > > ogryn has high base stamina Yes. But then you also have to think about stamina regen speed and stamina regen delay (how long you have to wait before stamina starts to come back again) for each class aswell. ---
**Author:** ![ComradeHX](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/comradehx/32/9001_2.png) [@ComradeHX](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/ComradeHX)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 10:21am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/23 "2024-10-14T10:21:27Z")
Dueling sword is basically a better knife on any class. ---
**Author:** ![ComradeHX](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/comradehx/32/9001_2.png) [@ComradeHX](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/ComradeHX)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 10:24am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/24 "2024-10-14T10:24:14Z")
Even if weapon results in slower sprint, ogryn can typically sprint(read: slide spam) for longer and still has faster base sprint when out of stamina than most. I find stamina related buffs to be useless for running forward unless skipping enemies to run to the end of area. Getting stuck on windows…etc. is an issue, but that’s map-dependent. You need to check the stats, Ogryn is significantly faster than vet and psyker when all are out of stamina. For example vet needs something like 44% bonus to sprint speed just to break even with ogryn’s default 0stamina sprint speed. Psyker is the one with shortest stamina regen delay and 3 classes including ogryn has the same 1/s base regen, that’s not a big deal in case of running toward target(because psyker also has lower base stamina) and often there is no time to regen(dodge…etc. interrupt it; turning 90 degrees and dodging into ranged enemies is one of the movement techs). Of course you have multiple ways to buff movespeed on psyker so that can make psyker the fastest with scrier’s gaze, movespeed stack on crit, disrupt destiny…etc. But that’s also situational. ---
**Author:** ![Jonn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@Jonn](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Jonn)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 10:43am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/25 "2024-10-14T10:43:19Z")
> [@ComradeHX](#): > > slide spam Have you tried slide spamming with Psyker? stamina will regen right back up while moving forward, unless veteran takes both stamina regen delay reduction nodes no other class will match that stamina regen. > [@ComradeHX](#): > > I find stamina related buffs to be useless for running forward unless skipping enemies to run to the end of area. Just a point that there are a bunch of little things that adds up to the “_feeling_” that Ogryns are slower, not that they actually are. > [@ComradeHX](#): > > You need to check the stats, Ogryn is significantly faster than vet and psyker when all are out of stamina. Yes, but the part of the post that I think you are referring to only mentions that it is equal to Zealot (0,75 modifier to sprint speed) without stamina and that Ogryn is slower with stamina against Veteran and Zealot (Both 5,2 m/s sprint speed). Look, I’m not disagreeing that I do find it silly that people just says that Ogryn is slower, but when they’re up against DS4 slide spamming psykers or knife zealots and getting stuck behind things, it’ll add up to the distinct feeling that Ogryns are slower, while the base stats for each class says pretty clearly that they have an pretty even starting line. ---
**Author:** ![Rainman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/da6949/32.png) [@Rainman](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Rainman)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 11:19am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/26 "2024-10-14T11:19:04Z")
i’d prefer if it was on the mission board more often ---
**Author:** ![Zoralink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@Zoralink](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Zoralink)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 11:33am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/27 "2024-10-14T11:33:41Z")
> [@NihilistZealot](#): > > “Someone else is having fun differently from the way I have fun and I don’t like the way they have fun, nuke their kit!” Yeah, minus the part where it’s miserable to play with you and your ‘way of having fun.’ Nobody enjoys playing Chase the Zealot as they faceroll rooms of enemies. I came back to the game with the itemization update and even auric damnation can be painfully easy when people are running meta builds on vet/zealot. They needed to rein in the old veteran’s power level, not bring other things up to it. Auric damnation just feels like a snooze fest of the game doing nothing but spamming a conga line of specials that get one shot over and over at you, hoping someone makes a mistake. From their eyes glazing over at it, I guess. It’s been a **really** bad returning experience, honestly. The power creep from the talent trees and general adjustments is very, very blatant as someone who played for the first six months or whatever it was of the game. ---
**Author:** ![Ralendil](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/ralendil/32/108313_2.png) [@Ralendil](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Ralendil)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 11:53am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/28 "2024-10-14T11:53:43Z")
> [@Zoralink](#): > > I came back to the game with the itemization update and even auric damnation can be painfully easy when people are running meta builds on vet/zealot. You forgot Ogryns that can make the run easy, and psykers that can also deal insane amount of damages with warp attacks. ---
**Author:** ![Zoralink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e9a140/32.png) [@Zoralink](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Zoralink)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 11:55am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/29 "2024-10-14T11:55:21Z")
They’re generally much less problematic overall, and at least I can generally still play the game with them. I’m not saying they’re not strong too. Like I said, the power creep is stupidly blatant. Honorable mention to one of the lamest matches I saw with two smite psykers who just made it boring as crap _and_ slower paced. ---
**Author:** ![Ralendil](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/ralendil/32/108313_2.png) [@Ralendil](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Ralendil)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 11:58am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/30 "2024-10-14T11:58:16Z")
> [@Zoralink](#): > > I’m not saying they’re not strong too. Like I said, the power creep is stupidly blatant. I would say that on Ogryn there are weapons too strong. On psyker, something is wrong with warp damages. I suspect a talent, but I don’t play this class. For zealot/veteran… this is for the main part too strong talents. ---
**Author:** ![Bankrotas](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/bankrotas/32/22467_2.png) [@Bankrotas](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Bankrotas)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 1:11pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/31 "2024-10-14T13:11:40Z")
One question. Where do you stand on current Ripper bayonet performance? And have you compared it to current Hellebore bayonet performance? ---
**Author:** ![Ralendil](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/ralendil/32/108313_2.png) [@Ralendil](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Ralendil)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 1:18pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/32 "2024-10-14T13:18:29Z")
Honestly, when I play Ogryn, Ripper is my favorite ranged weapon. This is a great weapon especially to kill crushers. ---
**Author:** ![Unavailable](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/unavailable/32/83285_2.png) [@Unavailable](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Unavailable)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 1:43pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/33 "2024-10-14T13:43:30Z")
> [@Jonn](#): > > Although most of the time what I see holding back Ogryns is their inability to move forward and fight at the same time. I use the bully club and heavy swing setup on my ogryn and i can move forward as i swing… am i the chadgryn then 😉 where my extra rations ---
**Author:** ![Index](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/index/32/95844_2.png) [@Index](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Index)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 1:54pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/34 "2024-10-14T13:54:44Z")
karsolas works the same way, you figure out the pacing you can slide/swinging forward almost the same speed. ---
**Author:** ![Unavailable](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/unavailable/32/83285_2.png) [@Unavailable](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Unavailable)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 4:22pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/35 "2024-10-14T16:22:22Z")
its like a slow dance ---
**Author:** ![Molonious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5a626/32.png) [@Molonious](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Molonious)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 5:52pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/36 "2024-10-14T17:52:11Z")
For my own part, weapon balance for this game is largely fine at this point. Most everything is useable in some form or fashion, even if not ideal or in every build or setup. Are some things stronger than others? Yes. Is that a huge problem in and of itself? Not really. Is there anything strong enough that it can, on its own, trivialize content for the typical user? Not that I’ve seen, we’re not seeing Malice-level players using Revolvers to roll through Damnation games with ease for instance. Likewise, the proportion of the playerbase that’s so good that Auric Maelstrom is just _too_ easy with the weapons we have in game is so small as to be negligible. One issue the game has is that in some respects, it has _too many_ weapons. For the 18 different Las and Auto guns in this game, tabletop 40k considers them all the exact same thing with one singular weapon profile. Autopistols, Revolvers, and Las Pistols? Again, tabletop 40k treats these and all their different Marks as one identical profile. Dueling Sword, Combat Knives, Axes of all kinds, Shovels, etc? All just generic “close combat weapons” as far as tabletop 40k cares. In exploring all these varied weapons, Darktide is more trying to show off the detail of the 40k universe, rather than maintain some strict semblance of balance. I’ve noted it elsewhere, but if someone made a super realistic Cold war era shooter with G3s, FALs, AK74s, and M16s, all you’d ever see used in competitive play would be the FALs and M16s because their manipulations can be handled faster with the same damage output as their slower alternatives. When we look at competitive shooting events with timers, they’re full of ARs, AKs are basically absent from finishing places because they take too long on clock to manipulate for very experienced shooters. However, that doesn’t mean that AKs and G3s are incapable weapons or would have no purpose in games alongside smoother operating weapons, and it doesn’t mean the average user is capable of taking advantage of those differences either. The one issue I have is with weapons operating outside their niche, as that’s a consistency issue as well. If a Dueling Sword is an amazing weapon for voiding and blocking/parrying attacks, great. That’s how a real saber works too, and I don’t really have a problem with it being a bit over the top in that respect in a Coop PvE game. If however the Dueling Sword is a spectacular killer of heavily armored opponents, that’s an issue, as that’s not how that weapon is supposed to work. That’s the sort of thing I have issues with. Either way I think we’re in a far better state than previously in DT’s life. I remember on launch how so many weapons were just bad or not fun to play with or that reflect properly, like autoguns with visibly equipped with quad stack magazines that could only hold 20-something rounds or where Slaughterer was _the_ blessing to put on _everything_. Whatever balance issues do exist, overall they’re much less pressing than they used to be. ---
**Author:** ![Jonn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@Jonn](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Jonn)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 7:39pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/37 "2024-10-14T19:39:54Z")
> [@Unavailable](#): > > am i the chadgryn then 😉 Yes. > [@Unavailable](#): > > and i can move forward as i swing Something most players are unable to do, standing in a defendable spot and hack away at the incoming poxwalker horde seems to be more fun then actually moving forward or helping with the objectives. ---
**Author:** ![Unavailable](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/unavailable/32/83285_2.png) [@Unavailable](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Unavailable)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 9:56pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/38 "2024-10-14T21:56:20Z")
well the way my ogryn is set up he has to keep hitting something its how he stays alive… he regens toughness with every heavy hit if i run out of stuff to bonk on the head ill die. a mixture of talents and weapon blessings means as long as I’m swinging ill live more or less ---
**Author:** ![Jonn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/a87d85/32.png) [@Jonn](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Jonn)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 10:49pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/39 "2024-10-14T22:49:31Z")
> [@Unavailable](#): > > a mixture of talents and weapon blessings means as long as I’m swinging ill live more or less That is how it is supposed to work, however you’ll see some strange things in quickplay. I think it is a combination of that most people only play Ogryn a little, and thus might struggle with engaging shooters and gunners and that the fact I _might be slightly biased_ on how other people play the class I enjoy the most. ---
**Author:** ![Frish](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/frish/32/70212_2.png) [@Frish](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Frish)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2024, 11:15pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034/40 "2024-10-14T23:15:33Z")
> [@Molonious](#): > > Either way I think we’re in a far better state than previously in DT’s life. Yeah… and just because it’s not perfect for everyone doesn’t mean this isn’t true, peeps! Cue Veterans and pre/post patch 13 discussion (which tbf I have no skin in this game). * * * One thing that consistently strikes me as unfair for all parties is all the people referring to Auric/Maelstrom as a “snoozefest” – like the problem is you. You’re really amazing at this game, congratulations (seriously). For mere mortals like myself my heart is still sent racing, so please bear me in mind thank you very much. Also if you think Auric/Maelstrom is too easy, in my books you lose your ‘complain about other players skill’ card since that right there is your T6 difficulty. Enjoy – and if you are spending your extra APM browbeating them in chat, then you have even less of my sympathy 😁 [Previous page](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/balance-some-feedback-on-weapons-train-mission/100034.md?page=3)