# A suggestion on how to fix red item rng **URL:** \ **Category:** Gameplay Feedback\ **Created:** [April 26, 2018, 1:39am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452 "2018-04-26T01:39:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![valicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@valicious](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/valicious)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 1:39am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/1 "2018-04-26T01:39:07Z")
let’s assume that each chest we open has a 2% chance to drop a red item. If no red is dropped in the first chest a counter starts with 2%. If a chest is opened and has a red item it resets the counter. If you get enough chests opened without a red to get the counter to 100% then the next chest you open will have 1 red item in it. obviously in the actual game the 2% would be replaced by the actual % chance drop for whatever tier chests you get. This rewards higher risk/skilled play more as normal and eliminates rng bad luck. ---
**Author:** ![NikKotovski](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/nikkotovski/32/12188_2.png) [@NikKotovski](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/NikKotovski)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 1:46am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/2 "2018-04-26T01:46:29Z")
[1,](http://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-coinflip-analogy-why-simply-increasing-the-drop-rate-doesnt-address-the-core-problem-with-red-drops/21723) [2,](http://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/bad-luck-protection-for-getting-reds-from-chests/22096) [3.](http://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/70-urgent-changes-this-game-needs-reasoning-included/22310/5) ---
**Author:** ![valicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@valicious](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/valicious)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 1:55am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/3 "2018-04-26T01:55:27Z")
Please read the posts you linked and mine. ---
**Author:** ![NikKotovski](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/nikkotovski/32/12188_2.png) [@NikKotovski](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/NikKotovski)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 2:40am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/4 "2018-04-26T02:40:55Z")
> [@The Coinflip analogy: why simply increasing the drop rate doesn't address the core problem with Red drops](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/the-coinflip-analogy-why-simply-increasing-the-drop-rate-doesnt-address-the-core-problem-with-red-drops/21723/1): > > If you want players to have a 5% chance of getting a red, then just give them a guaranteed red after every 20 legend vaults they open. This is quick and easy to implement, still rewards skill and commitment, and guarantees that there won’t be any unlucky people frustrated by never getting loot. > [@Bad Luck Protection for getting Reds from chests](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/bad-luck-protection-for-getting-reds-from-chests/22096/1): > > My proposal is: every time a player opens a chest (that has an X probability of rolling a red), but doesn’t get one, that X probability is accumulated and used (added) in the next chest, until the system reaches 100% chance, gives a red, and resets. > [@70 urgent changes this game needs. Reasoning included](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/70-urgent-changes-this-game-needs-reasoning-included/22310/5): > > Add a bad luck compensation system. (This is a standard practice, and this system is implemented in many games nowadays. It has 2 possible implementations. #1, after not getting a rare item x times in a row, a player is guaranteed to get one. This system, for example, is implemented in Hearthstone for legendary card drops. Implementation #2: every time a player does not get a rare item, a chance for getting that item gets increased. Such a system is implemented in Rainbow Six for loot boxes. One system is enough, and I like the second one better.) So what’s wrong? ---
**Author:** ![valicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@valicious](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/valicious)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2018, 2:54am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/5 "2018-04-26T02:54:44Z")
First, they are all different ideas. Second, my suggestion here retains current drop rate while removing rng bad luck. ---
**Author:** ![Revy](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/revy/32/12912_2.png) [@Revy](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Revy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 7:29pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/6 "2018-04-27T19:29:57Z")
They should just let us use orange dust or something to reroll red items, that way people could actually get what they want. Im fine with the extreme RNG of finding a red as long as when I do its something usable. ---
**Author:** ![Revy](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/revy/32/12912_2.png) [@Revy](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Revy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2018, 7:30pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/7 "2018-04-27T19:30:41Z")
Or, have red drops be tokens and you can use the token to buy whatever red you want. ---
**Author:** ![turel2](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/turel2/32/12855_2.png) [@turel2](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/turel2)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 11:24am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/8 "2018-04-30T11:24:11Z")
That is a great idea @valicious ---
**Author:** ![NikKotovski](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/nikkotovski/32/12188_2.png) [@NikKotovski](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/NikKotovski)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 11:38am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/9 "2018-04-30T11:38:01Z")
> [@turel2](#): > > That is a great idea @valicious Too bad it was already suggested at least 3 times. ---
**Author:** ![Prorbac](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/prorbac/32/10052_2.png) [@Prorbac](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Prorbac)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2018, 11:13pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/10 "2018-04-30T23:13:08Z")
I think the real trouble here is that fatshark does not want people to have a guaranteed red item ever. The real benefit of a veteran item is not its stat more its glory. You CAN have perfect stat on a exotic weapon, and for that you will need dust wich need a lot of chest, wich needs a lot of win. Of course veteran item are better for the only reason that they always have perfect stat making reroll way more effective, but the damage you do are not affected, the number of passive on the weapon are not affected etc etc. The fact that some people are unlucky is always unfair and not fun. But the system wich would eventually add up to 100% of luck to have a veteran item does not seem the desire of fatshark because it would break one of the only reason to have a red in the first place: glory. If it took you 500 hours to get ONE red you will feel that this red is the most unique one, if you got multiple one early it will loose value (it does not make the game fair again tho). The last point i would like to add [and be sure that i would actually not be again any form of security nest or thing like that for veteran items] is that veteran item ONLY drops at 300 power, meaning you will already have a lot of stuff/craft/skills in the game at that point it is not being more powerful that will matter, but be more prestigious. I feel that the reward could be higher in higher difficulty, but never in term of power, more in term of “glory” and that is, i think, the goal of the update “fashiontide” wich was teased recently. Good topic and good discussion! ---
**Author:** ![NikKotovski](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/nikkotovski/32/12188_2.png) [@NikKotovski](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/NikKotovski)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 2:48am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/11 "2018-05-01T02:48:21Z")
The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment… ™ ---
**Author:** ![souI23](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/soui23/32/25193_2.png) [@souI23](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/souI23)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 7:50am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/12 "2018-05-01T07:50:07Z")
We should have: - a solid way to get red items; OR - vermintide 1 crafting system. Currently we can’t try every career or new build… we can’t play a part of the game. ---
**Author:** ![valicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@valicious](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/valicious)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 8:15am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/13 "2018-05-01T08:15:28Z")
You don’t get a sense of pride and accomplishment when you play for 100, 200, 300 hours and not get one. you get a sense of salt though :P. and @NikKotovski as I’ve pointed out before there are different ideas on the forum. You seem to not understand that just because there are suggestions about the same topic that doesn’t make them the same suggestion. The combined issue of red rng and lack of green dust really sucked all of the fun out of the game for me. I haven’t played in 2-3 weeks now. Just waiting on some kind of fix. I still think the game is awesome up until end-game though ^\_^. ---
**Author:** ![Zwergenkaempferstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Zwergenkaempferstein](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Zwergenkaempferstein)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 11:45am UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/14 "2018-05-01T11:45:27Z")
The best way to fix this is to play on Legend. In Champion you ned at least generals chest for a chance to get a red item. And if you get red items the real problem starts almost 50% of my reds are necklace… so i have 9 of them. ---
**Author:** ![Benny89](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Benny89](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Benny89)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 12:11pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/15 "2018-05-01T12:11:31Z")
> I think the real trouble here is that fatshark does not want people to have a guaranteed red item ever. And that is why me and my friends stopped playing game like 2 weeks ago till they fix getting reds and green dust. The system right now is beyond stupid and frustrating and we never felt rewarded for clearing smoothly Legend or Deeds. We plan to go back to game or maybe even buy DLCs when Fatshark will fix that. Enough to said, none of us got red he wanted, while we all got reds that other one wanted… and no cosmetic for anyone (250-300h average on person). > The intent is to provide players with a sense of pride and accomplishment… ™ This ---
**Author:** ![nalim\_86](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/7cd45c/32.png) [@nalim\_86](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/nalim_86)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 12:32pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/16 "2018-05-01T12:32:52Z")
> [@valicious](#): > > @NikKotovski as I’ve pointed out before there are different ideas on the forum. You seem to not understand that just because there are suggestions about the same topic that doesn’t make them the same suggestion. 🤦‍♂️ ---
**Author:** ![NikKotovski](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/nikkotovski/32/12188_2.png) [@NikKotovski](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/NikKotovski)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 6:45pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/17 "2018-05-01T18:45:40Z")
> [@valicious](#): > > @NikKotovski as I’ve pointed out before there are different ideas on the forum. You seem to not understand that just because there are suggestions about the same topic that doesn’t make them the same suggestion. I am sorry to inform you, that same ideas can be expressed with different words. Your “brand new idea” is completely identical to the one, expressed in [this topic](http://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/bad-luck-protection-for-getting-reds-from-chests/22096) and to mine paragraph 5.7 [in here.](http://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/70-urgent-changes-this-game-needs-reasoning-included/22310/5) And even they were not exactly the same, does that really matter? The idea can be described in 3 words: bad luck protection. The particular implementation is a secondary matter. ---
**Author:** ![Anointedone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/bc79bd/32.png) [@Anointedone](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/Anointedone)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/18 "2018-05-01T19:42:28Z")
It’s a great idea, but it has been brought up many times. ---
**Author:** ![doom\_hamster](https://dub1.discourse-cdn.com/flex013/user_avatar/forums.fatsharkgames.com/doom_hamster/32/55388_2.png) [@doom\_hamster](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/doom_hamster)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/19 "2018-05-01T21:26:16Z")
And its best we keep bringing it, to show devs how many people want higher and more consistent red drops… I have loads of ideas about builds i wanna make, for all weapons and heroes (especially after doing breakpoints guide). And even with fixed green dust problem i’m sure i’ll be in constant deficit in gems while trying to test something new. I’ve seen that before in Verm 1, where i had muuch more ideas than resources, the gem grind for rng trait rerolls was so painfully slow… it was very boring, playing with same gear or random non-sensical trait combos. Mods that allowed to cheat in items and gems simply revived the game for me, and i’ve spent another 800 hours tinkering with gear and trying new stuff constantly, all interesting builds for any hero. I would seriously pay for DLC, that allows to pick exact item properties for x3 cost of normal reroll, same with trait. Thats how i feel about current rerolls. I hate rng crafting, with all my heart. Double hate for rng crafting with scarce resources you must grind for hours. I even find the system a bit insulting. Fot ppl like me, who know exactly what builds they want to try. It takes me 1-2 runs to experience a build/weapon fully, its 10 times faster the rate of making new builds/weapons with current crafting and grind for resources. I feel like the game locks me with same loadouts, is designed to prevent from trying new stuff, so i’d get bored faster and play less / leave. Its wrong imo, if a player doesn’t have all endgame content (all reds) by 300 hours mark. The game isnt mmo or free to play. For comparison, recall how many hours one walk through of witcher 3 or skyrim takes. Its from 50 to 150 for me. Now if they’ll introduce something like quest&contracts where you need 5 days to get 1 red item (of 50 total reds), that rate of getting them is still ridiculously slow. I dont know, its a shame that devs, i assume, see “endgame” starting from 1000 hours played mark. And fans of carrot on a stick design. ---
**Author:** ![valicious](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b5e925/32.png) [@valicious](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/u/valicious)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2018, 11:24pm UTC](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452/20 "2018-05-01T23:24:59Z")
siiiigh, ok. i’ll use small words. from the post that you say is exactly the same > [@Bad Luck Protection for getting Reds from chests](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/bad-luck-protection-for-getting-reds-from-chests/22096/1): > > My proposal is: every time a player opens a chest (that has an X probability of rolling a red), but doesn’t get one, that X probability is accumulated and used (added) in the next chest, until the system reaches 100% chance, gives a red, and resets. so for his idea if there were a 5% chance to get a red from a chest you would have 5% then 10% if you didn’t get one then 15% if you didn’t get one etc. my idea keeps the same % per chest for all chests. so you would have 5% then 5% then 5% and if you didn’t get a red by your 21st chest you would get one. once again, the “5%” would be replaced with the actual drop chance per chest you open. that means you’ll get a lot less reds with my idea. Your idea is so radically different I have to wonder if you are high…like all the time. so they are not the same. you are really bad at reading comprehension. please go do something else besides wasting everybody’s time with your replies to my thread. thanks. [Next page](https://forums.fatsharkgames.com/t/a-suggestion-on-how-to-fix-red-item-rng/22452.md?page=2)