Yes and the new CDR talent was way higher than that at first.
Giving a tradeof on the ult is a good thing, you can now have several builds.
Before you could wait for your coooldown and disappear once again. At that point, why bother adding ennemies?
AN other exemple of this is penetrating shot for the waywatcher. It looks great, if you have better aim than me. And I m sure will get exploited. But I will stick to the aimbot talents.
Since you completely ignored the question I guess that means you do think a single class should be the best at both DPS and utility?
How on earth was the shade ever the best utility class? No one ever said that she was or should be. Quote someone or GTFO. I ignore a lot of crap on forums in general but I will not have someone putting words in other people’s mouth. I hate that.
How is invisibility not the best utility? Especially when she had 10 seconds and able to walk through enemies.
They aren’t here to argue from a place of good faith, ignore them.
I’m not claiming to be some man on a mountain you bring your Shade questions to, I’m just confused.
The fact that YOU think invisibility is the best utility is COMPLETELY SEPARATE from you claiming other people said Shade should have the best utility.
I would argue that prior to 2.0 Ranger Vet or Witch Hunter had the best utility.
So, having 10 seconds of being invisible, walking through enemies, no range limit, short cd, and being able to freely pick up allies and heal (not to mention having the highest damage in the game) isn’t as good of a utility? In what way?
Wh surely as a good utility but that is not the point.
You say that RV has the best utility in the game prior 2.0? How so? (Especially if you say invisibility is not the best utility)
This character has always been subpar sadly. It brings a lot of utility with its pot drop, but that s all.
The only time he got love was fow, in legend. In Cata, he doesn’t bring enough to the table anymore.
Since you are focusing on RV ult , here is its pro and con:
+Invisibility
+Phase through ennemies (sad hunstman)
± drop Aggro
Adding free bomb is a good start but the cooldown is still way to big to be reliable.
Suggestions:
Decrease cooldown.
Remove moove talent or add increased cooldown if you take it.
Last talent: add same as bomb but with heals. At cost of increased cooldown. Now you have a build without temp hp and finally someone who can use heal share.
Is this op? I don t think so because it won t protect against burst of damage.
So I went outside the subject to show you why you can’t compare. Taking everything in vacuum is a fine first step, but you have to take everything in relation in consideration. Shade can still move where she want and deal huge burst damage reliably. RV just fade out, throw a bomb and fire once or twice, or try to catch up with ennemies following your mates.
So I went outside the subject to show you why you can’t compare. Taking everything in vacuum is a fine first step, but you have to take everything in relation in consideration. Shade can still move where she want and deal huge burst damage reliably. RV just fade out, throw a bomb and fire once or twice, or try to catch up with ennemies following your mates.
Shade can move virtually the same amount of space that Bardin can now except she doesn’t get any talent to make it more useful that doesn’t come with situational baggage. I do agree her damage potential is better than RVs, and her burst is second to maybe a BoP WHC or Piercing Shot Waystalker with amazing aim.
I think I found the answer in this thread though, this change was made to accommodate weaves and prevent Shades from dominating leaderboards. It was pushed through without any real balance consideration as part of the 7th wave of patches which is why it sits so oddly with the current talents.
No this is still not the answer. But you refuse to read. Her ult is damage, she doesn’t need invisibility and invisibility made her ult too powerful, because of it s utility. They could have removed invisibility all together. It is not an utility class. And now it is more inline with other invisibility ult, but still better than krub huntsman and handmaiden because of all she can do with this 5 seconds, and the ability to disappear once again
Here is another way to explain it to you.
Take handmaiden dash invis ult and take shade dash with ult talent. Now the 2 characters are quite similar… Or are they?
Which of the 2 is better?
And dash with ult is the worst of the 3 option for shade and we didn’t even took into account her vastly superior mobility in comparison with RV…
Sure, the fact that this wasn’t an issue since the launch of the game, or the BBB, or even the first 6 waves of balance patches for the WoM beta and that this change was so rushed that it was missed when the 2.0 patch notes were compiled are just coincidences.
I get the justification provided for it, the execution leaves a lot to be desired on my end.
You can t get it because if using a vacuum, you are right. But vacuum has no sense. You need to consider synergies. You think about taking RV talent to move outside of his cloud, but you don’t consider shade last (and new row) of talent.
And 2 of them are requiring this change…
Trying to balance the game around concentration potion is an uphill battle. If that’s really the root of their worries they should just make it so that concentration potion fills your ultimate up once, then its effects stop.
But Imo that was not their problem (the shorter invisbility doesn’t really affect boss fights, and the lack of 30% cooldown talent, while annoying, is still barely noticable with the right build).
I’m afraid the reason behind that nerf is to make the game more fair for the leaderboards (yay! we needed those in a co-op!) as that ultimate made the games easier to solo/speedrun.
Handmaiden. She can move freely through enemies without even needing to use her ult. It’s fun, but it also feels pretty brokenly OP.
That’s a pretty disingenuous statement. I recall reading something earlier about how Bardin’s stealth had a 4-second diameter, but you don’t start on one edge and travel across it, so it’s really the radius that is meaningful. And 5 is quite a bit bigger than 2.
I don’t really have a dog in this fight, but I did think this point was interesting:
I think shade needs to be able to drop aggro to play as such a glass cannon, so I don’t fully agree with this, but I think I agree more than I disagree.
Man. I had a lot of words to type out but on further consideration I just don’t’ feel like it. Pre 2.0? Absolutely not. Ranger Veteran was a bomb dispenser and nothing else. Specials were far less threatening unless you’re in FOW which you then would be a IB in most general comps. Everything else from deeds to hyper twitch were better solved with a Slayer. As it turns out, enemies completely walking through you to your allies between your swings while you’re confined to a single spot and the ability to clear hordes, bosses, and elites, or provide enough damage to do that IS utility. And RV has the least talents necessary to do that job and is the only ranged centric career (given that he has the reload and ammo talents) to not have a SINGLE skill that provides raw damage to the arrows you shoot.
I’m sure tons of people would love to talk about how Master of Improvisation (a waster of a talent if you don’t have share and share alike or Grungni’s Cunning) and Firing Fury (see above) give you so much utility given that they only really effectively go with 1.5 weapons what with the fact that they’ve dashed the grudgeraker all over the rocks.
He’s not even the best user of the crossbow. BH beats him out in that cold.
I’m sorry but this may be the most disingenuous thing so far. There have been HEAPS of problems that took ages to fix. Heck there are still bugs in the game from launch. There are still plenty of balance changes that need to happen (Zealot has been problematic in one way or another since launch, and has never been brought in line). You can’t honestly be arguing that because it’s a recent balance change it’s never been an issue before. People have been complaining about Shade being too strong in one way or another regularly pretty much from launch.
Also, Hedge responded elsewhere that yes missing it in the 2.0 patch notes was a slip up, one he is kicking himself for. You can claim he’s just lying I guess? Or you can assume conspiracy if you prefer. I’m gonna take him at his word, personally.
Fact remains that almost nobody here agrees with you on this, so how about we just finish this topic and call it a day yeah? Nothing else getting achieved here I guarantee.
You ever get into an argument with someone, realize your original point was wrong, but kept arguing anyway just for the sake of being right? I think thatʻs what youʻre doing Bloody_Shart.
You canʻt even begin to compare RV ult and Shade ult. One is extremely useful while the other is mediocre; you canʻt even move outside RV smoke radius unless you talent into it. Whatʻs more is that the 10 seconds of not being hit can be easily accomplished by simply having good mechanics. Can the same be said about shade ult damage? No amount of skill in the game can cause you to hit for like 500 on one backstab.
Anyway, there were a lot of good points made in this discussion by others. I suggest you read them with an open mind and stop trying to defend your point. You canʻt learn anything you think you know, and right now you have a predetermined answer for how strong Shade is at the moment. If you donʻt want to discuss or debate donʻt even post lol.
Why do we even compare RV ult and shade ult ? All careers NEEDS to be different, so it’s okay to have different ults based on different things.