TL;DR - I removed Unchained’s ability to explode from getting hit. Based most of her kit around Unstable Strength instead of Blood Magic. Pushing her in a direction where it’s almost impossible for her to cast any spells at all, unless picking certain talents.
If none of that sounds appealing to you and you think this is a stupid, shitty idea - you’re goddamn right.
Ever wonder what is contained within the Cursed Grimoires and why it seems to give you asthma? Well, let me show you what’s actually written there - a concept for Unchained Rework where Sienna can no longer explode from getting hit and has been turned into more of a Slayer than a deranged spell caster.
To do this, I had to remove all of Sienna’s “extremes” such as only benefiting from high Overcharge despite being on the verge of dying everytime she does so. High-risk, High Reward is completely gone and I’m trading that off for more general consistency and melee power. And a lot less opportunities to use your staff. It does and doesn’t make sense.
Add - Only adds more into a talent.
Rework - Changes the talent while keeping the original function.
Change - Complete disregard for the old talent to create a new one.
I’ve been brewing this for like a month now along with other talent changes for other classes, but I’m not going to make another post about it. If you want to see more bad ideas, here’s a link to the rest of them. Some changes to FK, WS, BH, Pyro and the rest.
Talent Reworks
Passive Skill : Switch places of Blood Magic and Unstable Strength
In prospect for suggested changes, talents will now revolve around Unstable Strength.
Unstable Strength : Increased melee power on high Overcharge by up to 60%
(Rework) Increase melee power based on Overcharge level, up to 30%. Max of 5 stacks.
Blood Magic : 50% damage taken transferred to Overcharge.
(Add) Effects disabled at max stacks of Unstable Strength.
* Lose both 50% damage reduction and gaining overcharge from getting hit.
(New Passive Skill!) Fuel for the Fire : Melee hits grant Overcharge, max of 5 enemies per swing. Effect disabled at max stacks of Unstable Strength.
1 Overcharge per enemy hit. 5 Overcharge maximum per swing.
Frenzied Flame : Increases attack speed by 15% while at or above high Overcharge.
(Change) Increases movement speed by 15% while at max stacks of Unstable Strength.
Searing Grasp : Push attacks ignite enemies with a light damage over time effect.
(Change) Increase slam attack power by 200%.
* Burn damage from slam attacks are unaffected.
* Fire Sword and Dagger first heavy attack benefit from this talent.
* Burning Flail’s first charged attack does not benefit from this talent.
Chain Reaction : Burning enemies have a small chance to explode on death.
(Change) Killing an elite enemy causes them to explode and set nearby enemies on fire.
* Damage over time based on Elite enemy’s health
Dissipate : Block cost is reduced by 50% when Overcharged and blocking attacks vent Overcharge.
Change talent name to “Red Wind’s Wake” (Change) Each stack of Unstable Strength also increases cooldown reduction of Living Bomb by 3%. Maximum effect persists for 3 seconds.
* “Persist” means it will still be in effect even after losing full stacks of Unstable Strength.
* Similar to Slayer’s “Adrenaline Surge”
Conduit : Increases rate of venting Overcharge by 30% and reduces damage taken from venting by 50%.
(Change) Each stack of Unstable Strength also increases attack speed by 4%. Maximum effect persists for 3 seconds.
* “Persist” means it will still be in effect even after losing full stacks of Unstable Strength.
Numb to Pain : Reduces damage taken by 5% for 15 seconds after taking damage from venting Overcharge. Stacks up to 3 times.
(Change) At max stacks of Unstable Strength, gain 20% damage reduction and immunity to slow after getting hit.
Burning Dregs : Dropping below 50% health vents all Overcharge. Can only trigger every 60 seconds.
(Change) Killing burning enemies increases your critical hit chance by 5% for 6 seconds.
Natural Talent : Reduces Overcharge generated by 10%.
Change talent name to “Dissipate” (Change) Increases rate of venting Overcharge by 50% but increases damage taken from venting by 50%.
Flame Wave : Increases the radius of Living Bomb explosion by 50%.
Change talent name to “Backdraft” (Change) Release another explosion 3 seconds after activating Living Bomb.
Fuel for the Fire : Each enemy hit by Living Bomb increases power by 5% for 10 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times.
Change talent name to “Implosion” (Add) Living Bomb no longer vents Overcharge.
Hopefully you didn’t actually read through all of that.
But if you did, and you’re a Fatshark employee - buff Unchained, you cowards.
And for the next anniversary (2021) you better give us chairs that can be used as weapons during A Quiet Drink.
Maybe I missed something, can Unchained explode from Fuel for the Fire?
“Melee hits grant Overcharge, max of 5 enemies per swing. Effect disabled at max stacks of Unstable Strength.”
As it says, the effect is disabled after hitting max stacks of unstable strength, so after a point you won’t overcharge anymore. Can’t explode from it.
@op, good thread, interesting read, VERY cool ideas. Specially Fuel for the fire. But leave my dissipate alone >:C
Thanks. Regarding Dissipate, I just thought that UC would be such a melee powerhouse that she can have temp hp almost all the time so she should be punished a bit more for trying to vent into spell-casting. But this is all theory anyway, it’d probably better to just leave it alone as it is.
I forgot how to quote people in the forums. apologies
Some thought i had and questions i wanted to ask to make it more clear.
Do you reach max stacks at the same overcharge level as you do now?
Can i get overcharge stacks from ranging?
otherwise
So i can range here untill i get max overcharge and then switch to melee, never have to worry about getting hit and blowing up?
or keep my stacks at 4 and get 50% dmg reduction which applies to venting i assume?
or just range, meanwhile stacks reduce my ult cooldown and i can just use temp hp ult and be a pyro for example.
So 230% firesword claw attack increase, slam does 14 dmg if i remember correctly, so that increases it to 32 damage per attack + 4 dot damage which isnt increased to be a total of 36 damage.
On elites and armor it does 7 damage normally so that would increase it to 16 damage + 4 dot = 20 damage on elites per swing.
Does this and the 50% dmg reduction stack with barkskin or other damage reduction passives? Does this apply to venting aswell? Does it stack with enfeebling flames?
Does this apply to range aswell or only on ranged?
Does it have a cap?
Does it work with crit refund?
Does it work with crits give cdr trait?
I think this is a bit too strong even if it only applies to melee.
Does the second explosion also vent overcharge?
What stops me from Staying at 4 stacks, ranging getting insane crits, getting cdr on stacks, getting temp hp from ult and just be a tanky pyro.
If getting 5 stacks is the same level as it is now, you could just be a crit refund unchained which uses her staff and can refund unlimited times, stack that with damage reductions and your unkillable.
again does this stack with ranged? even if you cant get stacks with ranged you can still use 3 seconds to have increased attack speed because it persists.
does this work on ranged?
how much is the damage it can do?
hard to judge if we dont get numbers for balance, this could be super op or super weak?
Whats the chance to explode aswell?
I’m sorry to bombard you with questions, just helps me get a better idea of how it would play and i feel like you have some good ideas.
I hope i didnt demotivate you from suggesting changes for careers, i appreciate you doing this.
Someone can correct me on this, but I think the base Overcharge capacity for all classes is 50. A little below 40 gives you max stacks. Should work the same way.
You will generate Overcharge from spell-casting no matter what. Like any other Sienna classes, it’s the only way you can blow yourself up now.
Yes.
50% DR from Blood Magic doesn’t work on venting. It shouldn’t work on my rework either.
That’d be one way to play it, as much as I don’t want it to. I could change Red Wind’s Wake more akin to something like Resourceful Combatant.
“At max stacks of Unstable Strength, melee hits reduce the cooldown of your Career Skill by 3%. Max 1 target per swing.”
Unchained right now with 650power, Mainstay, full Overcharge, no vs. power : Slam attacks deal 7.25 damage to unarmored and 1.75 against armored. Going to be lower with my rework (30% buff instead of 60%).
It stacks with everything that isn’t Blood Magic. I don’t remember if Blood Magic stacks with Barksin… does it? Applies to venting, but no real value there. Enfeebling Flames reduces enemy damage output, so technically it stacks with the self-DR.
It’s just a crit buff, no different than being in Huntsman aura, but on a timer.
Does not stack, only duration refresh like Swift Slaying.
No. It’s just another explosion.
Again, crit on Burning Dreggs doesn’t stack. I mean, you could play Unchained that way but you’d be ignoring the value of your melee attacks. This is all theoretical, you could always put this under beta and your players will always find ways to break something. I know I do. You just have to change things accordingly.
Naturally.
Yep.
I never gave it much thought, I was thinking more about Billhook and Flail users for this.
Depends on how much you value stagger.
100% against Elites. Now I kinda want to put Specials in there as well.
No problem. I’m just one guy, so getting feedback and letting other people poke holes in your design is always useful. It’s the only way you can learn, really.
Fun fact, the overcharge pool comes from the weapons (staffs and IB weapons) instead of the classes themselves. So Fatshark could theoretically create a ranged weapon with a higher or lower amount of overcharge total.
Wait I tested it and the initial slam damage on firesword clan rats/sv is 10/4. you are correct my initial numbers were a bit too high, but i think yours are a bit too low. With slam you mean the 1st heavy right?
Having less dmg on venting is pretty big value if it also applies to yourself thats even better, thats a constant 80% dmg reduction if you can keep at 4 stacks , even 50% on max stacks is strong af.
Makes sense i missread this.
you are trying to go put uc like slayer but the difference with slayer is that slayer doesnt have strong ranged weapons. if i can get good range + strong melee + higher base hp without risking blowing up except from my range (which shouldnt happen) + have temp hp ults + cdr on talents, thats pretty strong i would say.
While the ideas are good and creative, i think unchained doesn’t need all those changes to be effective, uc doesnt really need an entire rework to her kit. But you probably made this post so fatshark can pick some talents or ideas from you and implement them.
i think this total rework is hard to judge how it would play by reading, but i think this would be a bit strong, and i think the uc fixes are much easier to achieve. They should start by fixing how damage reduction doesnt get applied in overcharge, tweak some talents (maybe pick some of your ideas) but that i feel would be a good start on the way to fixing her.
I seem to be missing something. Where are you getting these 80% venting dr from 4 stacks, and 50% venting dr on max stacks from?
That’s fair enough. Apart from revolving her talents around Unstable Strength instead of Blood Magic (which they barely do), I wish she just doesn’t blow up on getting hit anymore. I wanted to say that, at the very least, they could lower her CD to 60sec, but they decided to give her Bomb Balm so… ¯\_(ツ)__/¯
edit: After my original post I played some Unchained and had massive melee kills without blowing up, in cata. So I’m sorry Unchained for maligning you. It’s just hard to learn quick vents and heat management. Frankly I believe this is a class for high-level players only. I started blowing up when tired/lazy. Leaving post below for interesting contrast in single day of practice.
…
ANYTHING would be better than current Unchained. She’s a melee class with 40 hp, after you power her up half way to get buff. What IS that? Maybe a few guys in world can play her at highest level.
Vote UC for most in need of improvement. FS need not wait for next big patch, do it today.
You get 50% damage reduction right from passive + enfeebling flames, once you get 5 stacks your 50% changes to 20% from talent so 20+30 is 50% or am i missing something. And i wasnt really saying 80% on venting, just overall. i was saying dmg red on venting is a big deal.
I would like to point out once again that neither Blood Magic and Enfeebling Flames give you venting damage reduction.
Just tested venting between Pyromancer and Unchained with Fireball Staff. They both take 4 damage per tick while venting. And Enfeebling flames reduces burning enemy’s damage output, it doesn’t give you any self-damage reduction whatsoever. You might be confusing it with Soot Shield from BW.
Barkskin does give venting DR, though. So that’s something.