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New Enemies

Kessen5129Kessen5129 12 PointsMember, Level1
Hi i think that the game is great but the problem is that many players drop off because the gets stagnant and monotone after your millionth rat slayed.

so i got a suggestion about getting a wider community by some DLCs up to 19.99 EUR cost each (If CA can wringe out 18 EUR for 1 new playable race in total war, these wont be overpriced)

Each DLC containing a smaller Campaign like 3 tome/grimoire maps, 2-3 short maps and 1 Boss map, and a new enemy tide.

Undead tide ( continuation on Drakenhof after taken the chalice the undead starts to stir) Maptypes: City, Castle, Cemetary and outskirt maps

Mobs: Skeletons (Stats as ordinany skaven) Zombies (+20%HP but slower) 15-20 skeletons and 5-10 Zombies per wave

Special: Ghoul (As gutterrunner) Jumps on and bites target until knocked away, stays and attacks if knocked off and not killed and has a 3 sec CD before pouncing again.
Fellbat (As Packmaster) Grabs player and drag it away until target goes grey
Graveguard (As Stormvermin and Patrol) Armoured and halberd/glaive/2h sword
Necromancer (summoner) Summons 10 skeletons every 7 seconds until slain, has a Magic shield around him that works as being armoured
Wargulf or Crypthorror (As Ratogre)
Campaignboss - Vampire (Hp as 3 Ratogres) in a castle that the players attack. fights players at 3 points on the map, when going down 1/3hp it scatters as bats and moves to next checkpoint.

Orcs and Goblins tide Maptypes: Forest, outskirt and city maps

Mobs: Goblins (As Slaveratmodel) Orc (15%Hp more than a skaven) 15-20 goblins and 5-10 orcs per wave

Special: Goblin netter (As gutterrunner) runs up and casts a net on player and stabs until knocked away, runs away from players for 10 seconds then net again
Orc Shaman (As ratlinggunner) positions and cast a green ray/lighting for 5 sec then CD for 5 sec, has a Magic shield around him that works as being armoured
Big'un (As stormvermin and patrol) armored and 2h axe or hammer
Squigbomb (suicider) runs up to player then explodes for varying dmg depending on difficulty
Troll (As ratogre) armed with 2h bone/stone-Club
Campaignboss- Orc Warboss (Hp as 3 ratogres) Players attack orc raiding camp and arena fight at end of map

Chaos tide Maptypes: city, outskirts and harbour maps

Mobs: Cultist (As skaven) Marauders (15%hp more than skaven) 15-20 cultists 5-10 marauders per wave

Special: Chaos Hound (As gutterrunner) Jumps on and bites target until knocked away, stays and attacks if knocked off and not killed and has a 3 sec CD before pouncing again.
Sorcerer (As Packmaster) Grabs player with magical Grasping hand and drag it towards itself as the smoker from L4D, has a Magic shield around him that works as being armoured
Berserker (miniratogre) armored 2 weapons attacking players (Hp As 2 stormvermins)
Warriors of chaos (As stormvermin and patrol) armored and 2h axe/sword/hammer
Chaos Spawn (As ratogre) can cast short range AoE attack similar to globadier
Campaignboss-chaos lord on Dragon/manticore- flies over city spreading mayhem, player shoot it down with 6 Balistas scattered over the map 1 shot from each Balista

Beastmen tide Maptypes: Forest, outskirt, and smallcity maps

Mobs: Ungor (As ordinary Skaven) Gor (+15%HP than skaven) 15-20 ungor and 5-10 Gor per wave

Special: Ungor netter (As gutterrunner) runs up and casts a net on player and stabs until knocked away, runs away from players for 10 seconds then net again
Bray shaman (As Packmaster) Grabs player with magical Grasping hand and drag it towards itself as the smoker from L4D, has a Magic shield around him that works as being armoured
Bestigor (As Stormvermin and Patrol) Armoured and halberd/glaive/2h axe
Tuskgor (As charger from L4D2) Charges and carries away target a distance or into a wall then bash it until killed (Hp as 2 Stormvermin, no armor)
Minotaur (As ratogre) armed with 2h Axe
Campaignboss- Cygor attacking citywalls from afar, players shoot it down by running along the wall into 4 towers on the wall and fire off a trebuchet in each tower similar to the chains on the white rat.

, u can have a Bounty/questboard for each DLC

Mapmissions varying from example:
DEFEND: Ammo/supply-cart, bridge, wall/gate
CLEAR OUT: Passage, wall/gate, Escape/smuggler-route
DESTROY/SABOTAGE: Block ravine, Bridge, Warmachines
GATHER: Ammo, Supplies, Weapons


If these would be possible i think the community would grow :D




Comments

  • Jakal_of_Kazak_VlagJakal_of_Kazak_Vlag 158 PointsMember, Level4
    i have seen these exact suggestions, one hundred times now, and they remain as unbalanced in concept as the first time.
  • QuanrianQuanrian 117 PointsMember, Level4
    I have to agree, I looked through them all and not one added breasts the game. Frankly I'm just ashamed of their exclusion in such an extensive list as they clearly are important to all fantasy action games! Though, we'll need a completely separate forum to discuss jiggle physics and how they will affect weapon balancing... :(|)
    Eat the game before it devours your life!
  • Kessen5129Kessen5129 12 PointsMember, Level1
    Unbalanced? its just an example list of how the could make use of more variation of enemies, the community i small, people get tired of grinding same maps with same enemies and leave...

    i would want them to stay and if you havent noticed the outro on white rat implies that other races are stirring...
    Jackal i have seen your post here and there, what are your concept of keeping the game alive?

    just want to be able to play in the near future with not asshatplayers or waiting for ages until u get a crew or being forced to play with AI...
  • SpiderPirate4SpiderPirate4 12 PointsMember, Level1
    I personally would love to see new enemies with an expansion (which they allude to and I think/hope is in the works).

    There's a lot that happens during the End Times, and this game is early End Times... as Morsslieb is still in the sky, so we could see things like the Undead invasions (before Vlad allies with the Empire), the Goblin/Skaven combos in the Dwarf holds, and the variety of Chaos incursions (largely Nurgle based). The Dark Elves and High Elves have their battles, but eventually unite with the Wood Elves... so we could even see new allies on the Elf side even.

    But I've been thinking of this as well... what new enemies could be included... how could they be utilized... can we even include new Skaven enemies to make them grow more challenging even?

    So my suggestions would be similar in many ways, though they don't have to do the same mechanics for each special as the Skaven and can do some new things... like they did in L4D2 by adding in new specials with new mechanics (the Jockey and Charger, like was included in the OP's Beastmen list). Since this is the End Times, the Stormfiends could be added in even with some new mechanics and challenges. There's not much left though that isn't already included, or would work... aside from some Plague Rats/Priests and maybe some Warpfire Throwers (which would explode upon death).

    So new enemies in new locations would definitely be a great way to keep the game going strong and add variety to the mix... but it would be nice to also give some of them a new mechanic that's not even similar to past ones.

    I would also love to see some new heroes... my immediate suggestions that I feel would work would be:

    Warrior Priest of Sigmar - Can have a minor heal or defensive mechanic and the burning light of Sigmar at range.

    Loremaster of Hoeth - They use both swords and cast... and being that High Elves know all schools of magic, you have a variety of options here you can play with. Otherwise, you have the schools of magic in the Empire that you can play with to increase the roster if you don't want to include any High Elves that happened to be off the island.

    Questing Knight/Paladin/Grail Knight (pick one) of Bretonnia... to make him different from the Empire Soldier, they have the favor of the Lady and some new weapons like the flail with shield and a sort of charge with the shield. Bretonnian warriors was heavily featured in End Times in the Grottkin, coming to the aid of the Empire... and the Skaven completely overran Bretonnia.

    If you go later into the story you could even include a Dark Elf... their ranged could be repeater crossbows (unique to the Dark Elves)... or even when Vlad allied... you could get the joys of playing as a Vampire Lord (but we're getting ahead of ourselves).


    I love this game.. I want to see it grow more and keep on trucking... and that includes new enemies on top of the new locations... and some new hero options.
  • TheWiseTheWise 54 PointsMember, Level3
    Main problem with all thse "armies" is, that they aren't new enemy factions as such - they are merely skin packs for the very same good ol' Skaven ... no more, no less.
  • QuanrianQuanrian 117 PointsMember, Level4
    True but that is just how it would go. The formula L4D used is actually pretty hard to deviate from because each enemy represents an archetype. These are not something they invented as they are deeply rooted in beat-em ups. Since Vermintide already added all the types present from L4D in one form or another there isn't much left except perhaps aerial units.
    Eat the game before it devours your life!
  • TheWiseTheWise 54 PointsMember, Level3
    Quanrian said:

    True but that is just how it would go. The formula L4D used is actually pretty hard to deviate from because each enemy represents an archetype. These are not something they invented as they are deeply rooted in beat-em ups. Since Vermintide already added all the types present from L4D in one form or another there isn't much left except perhaps aerial units.

    What about deviating from L4D and adding the enemies with new archetypes? Enemies, which would require different tactics and loadouts? A prompt - (somewhat) different enemy factions in ME3 multiplayer are IMHO a good example.

  • QuanrianQuanrian 117 PointsMember, Level4
    You cannot create different archetypes because they already exist and are prominent all you can do is create different blends or variations. In the end, you still have similar enemies.
    Eat the game before it devours your life!
  • TheWiseTheWise 54 PointsMember, Level3
    Quanrian said:

    You cannot create different archetypes because they already exist and are prominent all you can do is create different blends or variations. In the end, you still have similar enemies.

    Even somewhat similar enemies are better, than mere skin packs, proposed here.

  • QuanrianQuanrian 117 PointsMember, Level4
    Well, like I said before we haven't seen and may not want to see aerial units but it could be a different way to harass the player in various ways. I foresee issues with pathfinding though. Was digging around to see if I could even find any in the Skaven army and came across this (link below) thing. The neat thing about this unit is it can be customized and if ever used could be a modular unit that is different each time you encounter it.

    https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Skaven-Hell-Pit-Abomination?_requestid=18205136
    Eat the game before it devours your life!
  • TheWiseTheWise 54 PointsMember, Level3
    edited January 30
    Quanrian said:

    Well, like I said before we haven't seen and may not want to see aerial units but it could be a different way to harass the player in various ways. I foresee issues with pathfinding though. Was digging around to see if I could even find any in the Skaven army and came across this (link below) thing. The neat thing about this unit is it can be customized and if ever used could be a modular unit that is different each time you encounter it.

    https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Skaven-Hell-Pit-Abomination?_requestid=18205136

    What a cutie :-)) My idea, however, would be somewhat different - armies should not be each other's clones with different skins. They should have different background and units with different traits.

    For instance - rank and file of the Chaos armies, Chaos Marauders

    should not be equivalent of Clanrats / Slave Rats. I'd propose (If I was to make a Chaos army for this game) to make them some kind of "somewhat weaker, than unarmored Stormvermin", i.e. able fighters with "axe + shield" and "warpick + shield" combinations, capable to block and bash with shields. And way less numerous, than Clanrats. And unable to climb and jump down (and spawn right behind you).

    Or, say, bulk of the Undead army - Skeleton Warriors

    These could be close to Calnrats stats-wise, but with one trait - they should be nearly invulnerable to the ranged weapons, except for Bright Wizard's ones (really, what to shoot at in them?).

  • Kessen5129Kessen5129 12 PointsMember, Level1
    TheWise said:

    Quanrian said:

    Well, like I said before we haven't seen and may not want to see aerial units but it could be a different way to harass the player in various ways. I foresee issues with pathfinding though. Was digging around to see if I could even find any in the Skaven army and came across this (link below) thing. The neat thing about this unit is it can be customized and if ever used could be a modular unit that is different each time you encounter it.

    https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Skaven-Hell-Pit-Abomination?_requestid=18205136

    What a cutie :-)) My idea, however, would be somewhat different - armies should not be each other's clones with different skins. They should have different background and units with different traits.

    For instance - rank and file of the Chaos armies, Chaos Marauders

    should not be equivalent of Clanrats / Slave Rats. I'd propose (If I was to make a Chaos army for this game) to make them some kind of "somewhat weaker, than unarmored Stormvermin", i.e. able fighters with "axe + shield" and "warpick + shield" combinations, capable to block and bash with shields. And way less numerous, than Clanrats. And unable to climb and jump down (and spawn right behind you).

    Or, say, bulk of the Undead army - Skeleton Warriors

    These could be close to Calnrats stats-wise, but with one trait - they should be nearly invulnerable to the ranged weapons, except for Bright Wizard's ones (really, what to shoot at in them?).

    Well as i typed in my suggestion the marauders arent just as a clanrat but a bit better and less numerous and a supplement to more numerous cultists and i hope the difference in %HP is enough to make a difference but not so much that the balance breaks. finding totally new mechanics on the specials is kinda hard they have to be able to get countered and not be either too weak and not to strong. flying enemies without a proper pathing will get to problematic on open maps and hard to get to work in the narrow paths. better to have "floaters" that just have some air between the ground and the model but no alteration in the height when moving around. a bit what i thought about the Fellbats. reskinning is the fastest and less consuming change and makes it easier too just do supplementary changes afterwards.
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