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weapons balance

ToutatrixToutatrix 176 PointsMember, Level4
My 2 cents about the balance of weapons, at the moment the waywatcher and the fire mage are way over the top in range, as in melee for the waywatcher : definitely the all star. Game's become boring to play for either you play those chars and you kill everything or you watch those chars killing everything, leading to any cata game having them, with always the very same loadout.

* ultimate weapons even Sigmar and Khaine are still wondering where the hell they are coming from :

- bolt staff : who went with this strange idea of making the bolt staff becoming a trueflight bolt staff which blindly kills anything behind walls and corners ??? It was quite fine before, why you guys always have to listen to the whining totally unskilled crowd, I wonder ..? It was my favourite staff before, now I just despise any player using it...

FIX : Just raise normal shots damage and come back with the former version, no more trueflight mechanic for skilled gaming sake if you please.

- trueflight longbow : ultimate rat killer, blindly kills anything behind walls and corners, this weapon is the ultimate bad joke. I can't understand even the existence of such a ludicrous weapon in a game so called favouring skill and teamplay.

FIX : Trueflight effect should be limited to character field of vision (180°) and only visible targets should be possible to be shot at : no more blind shooting in the sky to clear the area. Finally the number of arrows should be lowered to 20 (magical arrows should be quite rares) with a raw potential of killing 40 rats, which is more than enough before having to get some ammo.

- glaive : too powerful even against swarm, I have yet to see a waywatcher doing badly with this weapon which means the powers are way off balance with the trade offs.

FIX : I think it's too speed to hit with whereas it should be the slowest weapon in the game, considering damage.

- hagbane shortbow : too speed and stack way too much, the ultimate ogre as swarm killer weapon.

FIX : Limiting the stacks per target : the ogre is meant to be hard to be killed by a team, not by a single elfe under speed and/or strengh potion, as lowering damage a bit wouldn't break this weapon.

* Useless weapons :


- any one handed weapon : is more likely useless, whatever is the character but the mage maybe, at the moment : the gain in speed, when there is a constitent one (erm elf sword errr) is not worth it.

FIX : Charged shots should deal more damage maybe.

- longbow : one shot in the head, 2 charged shots in the chest (orange in cata) the same as shortbow... Hence what's the point in using a longbow instead of a shortbow ? I do not know...

FIX : best thing should be to lower the arrows number to 40 and make it so one charged shot kills a clan rat (wouldn't break the already ridiculous trueflight anyway) and it would still be balanced with long guns since they can hit up to 2 targets in a line whereas longbow does not penetrate so much.
Suffer not exploiters to loot. Burn the lame players, kill the skaven and purge the bugs.
image
Most awaited new heroes :
1- warrior priest of Sigmar
2- wood elf wardancer/eternal guard
3- bretonnian questing knight
http://forums.fatsharkgames.com/discussion/1514/future-classes-i-d-like-to-play#latest

Comments

  • KVA1KVA1 48 PointsMember, Level2
    Toutatrix said:


    * ultimate weapons even Sigmar and Khaine are still wondering where the hell they are coming from :

    - bolt staff : who went with this strange idea of making the bolt staff becoming a trueflight bolt staff which blindly kills anything behind walls and corners ??? It was quite fine before, why you guys always have to listen to the whining totally unskilled crowd, I wonder ..? It was my favourite staff before, now I just despise any player using it...

    FIX : Just raise normal shots damage and come back with the former version, no more trueflight mechanic for skilled gaming sake if you please.

    - trueflight longbow : ultimate rat killer, blindly kills anything behind walls and corners, this weapon is the ultimate bad joke. I can't understand even the existence of such a ludicrous weapon in a game so called favouring skill and teamplay.

    FIX : Trueflight effect should be limited to character field of vision (180°) and only visible targets should be possible to be shot at : no more blind shooting in the sky to clear the area. Finally the number of arrows should be lowered to 20 (magical arrows should be quite rares) with a raw potential of killing 40 rats, which is more than enough before having to get some ammo.

    Agree completely about trueflight mechanic. It's lame.

    * Useless weapons :

    - any one handed weapon : is more likely useless, whatever is the character but the mage maybe, at the moment : the gain in speed, when there is a constitent one (erm elf sword errr) is not worth it.
    The hatchet/1h axe with berserking is probably the most effective melee weapons I use. I feel safer with 1 axe than with a great weapon or shield combo. The extra speed and visibility with no shield makes a big difference.

  • ToutatrixToutatrix 176 PointsMember, Level4
    Q&C is bringing more players and that's a good thing, but I can see how freakingly bad are most of them, even high levels : 200+

    They are so used either to abuse trueflight & bolt staff, or to play with players abusing of them, that they become totally unable to teamwork and help each other, constantly charging forward while barely having the slightiest look at their partners. They always blame others for their lack of skill and missing teamwork, while usually either not waiting for others, nor helping them when surrounded, or stupidly aggroing patrol when it can be easily avoided, nor even reviving down comrades, and so on...

    This to the point it's frequently impossible to play with a low level willing to try out high end difficulty supported with good players and a high level whom keeps rushing without ever looking back.

    All of this because they're abusively used to bolt & tf tactic clearing areas asap, thus they always rush recklessly thinking bolt & TF will save the day but end up being miserably and stupidly killed when bolt & TF are missing. Usual number of players coming in and out during a cata game is no less than half a dozen... for only 3 slots... due to rage quitting, and I'm not even counting the time when one or two of them, if not three, are mere useless for being prisoners.

    TS & bolt have to be nerfed asap for this game sake : they are ruining the pleasure of teamwork, especially in cata and nightmare difficulties, and totally annihilate any skill needed to play this game.

    Force players to become cautious in cata again and to play as a team, come back to a skill & team oriented game, rather than a stupidly unbalanced stuff oriented rpg.

    I'm tired of playing the elf to prevent stupid TF users to come in my game.
    KVA1 said:

    The hatchet/1h axe with berserking is probably the most effective melee weapons I use. I feel safer with 1 axe than with a great weapon or shield combo. The extra speed and visibility with no shield makes a big difference.

    Yet the amount of players using one handed weapons is ridiculously low, that must be a sign : either they are quite more technical to use or they are less efficient but thanks to some specific special effects, which shouldn't be taken into account for balance or it must be done the same for all weapons to compare.
    Suffer not exploiters to loot. Burn the lame players, kill the skaven and purge the bugs.
    image
    Most awaited new heroes :
    1- warrior priest of Sigmar
    2- wood elf wardancer/eternal guard
    3- bretonnian questing knight
    http://forums.fatsharkgames.com/discussion/1514/future-classes-i-d-like-to-play#latest
  • IvanDeliriumIvanDelirium 70 PointsMember, Level2
    Bolt staff is ok , mage is not too good in melee . Tf is the best option if they dont put headshot on Longbow .
  • BelmontBelmont 124 PointsMember, Level3
    edited October 2016
    if they want to stop the Bolt rage, just need to forbidden Bloodlust & Regrowth on the Bolt.
    as easy as this.

    for the TF i can't say much :/
    but the main problem is the guy spamming arrows on everything (even his mates).
    if you are using it to kill Specials & Storms, it's all good.
    Also known as Seb@s (ID)
  • ToutatrixToutatrix 176 PointsMember, Level4

    Bolt staff is ok , mage is not too good in melee . Tf is the best option if they dont put headshot on Longbow .

    the mage is not bad at melee : sword is quite decent even before a swarm, and bolt staff is by far stupidly OP compared to any other staff, like beam staff were before and conflag even before.

    Yeah, nerf longbow even more to allow TF madness : ridiculous.

    TF mechanic needs to be nerfed, not longbow.
    Suffer not exploiters to loot. Burn the lame players, kill the skaven and purge the bugs.
    image
    Most awaited new heroes :
    1- warrior priest of Sigmar
    2- wood elf wardancer/eternal guard
    3- bretonnian questing knight
    http://forums.fatsharkgames.com/discussion/1514/future-classes-i-d-like-to-play#latest
  • TsuchinokoTsuchinoko 88 PointsMember, Level3
    i have already endured the stupidly impossible beam nerf to my higly costly in both time and resourced needed staff last year. now that i managed to make AGAIN a perfect orange staff with the bolt kind, if they nerf this too, i stop playing the game for good. mark my words.
  • ToutatrixToutatrix 176 PointsMember, Level4

    i have already endured the stupidly impossible beam nerf to my higly costly in both time and resourced needed staff last year. now that i managed to make AGAIN a perfect orange staff with the bolt kind, if they nerf this too, i stop playing the game for good. mark my words.

    Well, you should play this game on easy or stop playing then, hard team focused games are definitely not for your kind.
    Suffer not exploiters to loot. Burn the lame players, kill the skaven and purge the bugs.
    image
    Most awaited new heroes :
    1- warrior priest of Sigmar
    2- wood elf wardancer/eternal guard
    3- bretonnian questing knight
    http://forums.fatsharkgames.com/discussion/1514/future-classes-i-d-like-to-play#latest
  • TsuchinokoTsuchinoko 88 PointsMember, Level3
    Toutatrix said:

    i have already endured the stupidly impossible beam nerf to my higly costly in both time and resourced needed staff last year. now that i managed to make AGAIN a perfect orange staff with the bolt kind, if they nerf this too, i stop playing the game for good. mark my words.

    Well, you should play this game on easy or stop playing then, hard team focused games are definitely not for your kind.

    hm, wierd last time i checked i had completed all maps on cataclysm, only play co. op on cataclysm and reached well far beyomd wave 40 in all last stand maps, and i play with all characters in a rotation.

    how about instead you play the game the way you wan't and try to stop spoiling it for everyone else? huh? you should really try it.
  • GrumrumGrumrum 15 PointsMember, Level2
    Toutatrix said:

    My 2 cents about the balance of weapons, at the moment the waywatcher and the fire mage are way over the top in range, as in melee for the waywatcher : definitely the all star. Game's become boring to play for either you play those chars and you kill everything or you watch those chars killing everything, leading to any cata game having them, with always the very same loadout.

    * ultimate weapons even Sigmar and Khaine are still wondering where the hell they are coming from :

    - bolt staff : who went with this strange idea of making the bolt staff becoming a trueflight bolt staff which blindly kills anything behind walls and corners ??? It was quite fine before, why you guys always have to listen to the whining totally unskilled crowd, I wonder ..? It was my favourite staff before, now I just despise any player using it...

    FIX : Just raise normal shots damage and come back with the former version, no more trueflight mechanic for skilled gaming sake if you please.

    - trueflight longbow : ultimate rat killer, blindly kills anything behind walls and corners, this weapon is the ultimate bad joke. I can't understand even the existence of such a ludicrous weapon in a game so called favouring skill and teamplay.

    FIX : Trueflight effect should be limited to character field of vision (180°) and only visible targets should be possible to be shot at : no more blind shooting in the sky to clear the area. Finally the number of arrows should be lowered to 20 (magical arrows should be quite rares) with a raw potential of killing 40 rats, which is more than enough before having to get some ammo.

    - glaive : too powerful even against swarm, I have yet to see a waywatcher doing badly with this weapon which means the powers are way off balance with the trade offs.

    FIX : I think it's too speed to hit with whereas it should be the slowest weapon in the game, considering damage.

    - hagbane shortbow : too speed and stack way too much, the ultimate ogre as swarm killer weapon.

    FIX : Limiting the stacks per target : the ogre is meant to be hard to be killed by a team, not by a single elfe under speed and/or strengh potion, as lowering damage a bit wouldn't break this weapon.

    * Useless weapons :


    - any one handed weapon : is more likely useless, whatever is the character but the mage maybe, at the moment : the gain in speed, when there is a constitent one (erm elf sword errr) is not worth it.

    FIX : Charged shots should deal more damage maybe.

    - longbow : one shot in the head, 2 charged shots in the chest (orange in cata) the same as shortbow... Hence what's the point in using a longbow instead of a shortbow ? I do not know...

    FIX : best thing should be to lower the arrows number to 40 and make it so one charged shot kills a clan rat (wouldn't break the already ridiculous trueflight anyway) and it would still be balanced with long guns since they can hit up to 2 targets in a line whereas longbow does not penetrate so much.

    I feel it same way like you.
    I hope devs will do something because its starting to be pretty boring with all those elf and wizard together with trueflights :)
    Everytime i create a lobby or join some there is always elf and wizard and both have trueflight.
    I play mainly as a witch hunter but also play with soldier or dwarf.
  • ToutatrixToutatrix 176 PointsMember, Level4

    Toutatrix said:

    i have already endured the stupidly impossible beam nerf to my higly costly in both time and resourced needed staff last year. now that i managed to make AGAIN a perfect orange staff with the bolt kind, if they nerf this too, i stop playing the game for good. mark my words.

    Well, you should play this game on easy or stop playing then, hard team focused games are definitely not for your kind.

    hm, wierd last time i checked i had completed all maps on cataclysm, only play co. op on cataclysm and reached well far beyomd wave 40 in all last stand maps, and i play with all characters in a rotation.

    how about instead you play the game the way you wan't and try to stop spoiling it for everyone else? huh? you should really try it.
    And I did it too without using a single exploit nor OP weapon, can you even pretend the same ?

    Typical exploiter, you spoil everyone you play with thanks to OP weapons, and this is blatantly a habit considering your first comment, and you dare to complain about people who just ask for balance and fairness.

    How lame X'D

    If you can't take that other people are playing to have fun too, and that not only your very little unworthy person matters, I highly suggest you play solo games wherein you'll be the very hero of the century (ex : skyrim) rather than coop online ones. Also you can play sims if you can't hold too high difficulty in games : it's very easy and very rewarding and this is online, you will be quite pleased.

    Anyway there are more and more players complaining about those stupidly OP weapons on steam : your case is as selfish as pointless, and I do hope devs will finally listen.
    Suffer not exploiters to loot. Burn the lame players, kill the skaven and purge the bugs.
    image
    Most awaited new heroes :
    1- warrior priest of Sigmar
    2- wood elf wardancer/eternal guard
    3- bretonnian questing knight
    http://forums.fatsharkgames.com/discussion/1514/future-classes-i-d-like-to-play#latest
  • BelmontBelmont 124 PointsMember, Level3
    edited October 2016
    Stop your dicks comparison, mates :-t
    actually, it's more a behavior problem than weapon problem, as i said before.

    \m/ PEACE !
    Also known as Seb@s (ID)
  • TsuchinokoTsuchinoko 88 PointsMember, Level3
    Toutatrix said:

    Toutatrix said:

    i have already endured the stupidly impossible beam nerf to my higly costly in both time and resourced needed staff last year. now that i managed to make AGAIN a perfect orange staff with the bolt kind, if they nerf this too, i stop playing the game for good. mark my words.

    Well, you should play this game on easy or stop playing then, hard team focused games are definitely not for your kind.

    hm, wierd last time i checked i had completed all maps on cataclysm, only play co. op on cataclysm and reached well far beyomd wave 40 in all last stand maps, and i play with all characters in a rotation.

    how about instead you play the game the way you wan't and try to stop spoiling it for everyone else? huh? you should really try it.
    And I did it too without using a single exploit nor OP weapon, can you even pretend the same ?

    Typical exploiter, you spoil everyone you play with thanks to OP weapons, and this is blatantly a habit considering your first comment, and you dare to complain about people who just ask for balance and fairness.

    How lame X'D

    If you can't take that other people are playing to have fun too, and that not only your very little unworthy person matters, I highly suggest you play solo games wherein you'll be the very hero of the century (ex : skyrim) rather than coop online ones. Also you can play sims if you can't hold too high difficulty in games : it's very easy and very rewarding and this is online, you will be quite pleased.

    Anyway there are more and more players complaining about those stupidly OP weapons on steam : your case is as selfish as pointless, and I do hope devs will finally listen.


    "little unworthy person" ? dude get tha fuck over yourself, i have tryed to be as polite as i could the first time but if you are gonna put it that way than GO FUCK YOURSELF HOMIE. you are not a "worthy person" surely no more than me for playing a fucking video game, even well AND without the so called "exploits" wich they are not by the way since it' all stuff present in the game you gan get and use in a legit way. wanna know what is and maybe even be a "worthy" person? than get da fuck out of your home and start doing something actually usefoul for society,instead of bitching about how more hard the game should be so you can compensate for you small dick by showing you "skillz" in this fucking ,again, VIDEOGAME. "unworthy person"! coz i use a weapon you don't like in a game...fucking looser.
  • Jakal_of_Kazak_VlagJakal_of_Kazak_Vlag 158 PointsMember, Level4
    stop gettin' mad about videogames, nerds.
  • XarkoXarko 96 PointsMember, Level3
    I agree, autoaim has no place in the game and should be removed.
  • PhaedraPhaedra 71 PointsMember, Level3
    edited November 2016
    Do NOT nerf the Hagbane...
    Don't even think about it ;)


    Edit: if you nerf TF then I'd recommend making it so you have to aim in the general vicinity of the target (not blind firing into the sky). Say 10- 20 square meters (~5 - 10 meters diameter) and the arrow will still home in, hit, and fly off and seek the second target. But if you miss your target by ridiculous amounts, by more than 5 or 10 meters, then the arrows homing does not activate. This still gives you powerful margin of error, but isn't "blind shooting" as it currently is.

    Both of these bows do already have drawbacks compared to say, the handgun or ordinary longbow, and I'd argue the Hag is already a well balanced weapon considering its situational usefulness.
  • Halvars90Halvars90 56 PointsMember, Level3
    edited November 2016
    No nerfs is needed, the other weapons need to be useful. I just played a few games with every staff and the only one that is even remotely useful (expect the bolt) is the fireball-staff.

    Like the Beam-staff I think is even to weak for the normal rats, and completely worthless against stormverin's, but thats ok not all weapons need to be strong against a stormvermin's, but part from the bolt no staff is. I think FS needs to improve the potential of the other weapons before they start nerfing stuff. If they nerf the Bolt-staff without buffing the other, then the Witch is dead to me.

    - If they nerf the bolt-staff and truflight I can agree with some people here, that they can keep the auto-aim but make it so you can only hit rats visibly in front of you.
  • ToutatrixToutatrix 176 PointsMember, Level4

    "little unworthy person" ? dude get tha fuck over yourself, i have tryed to be as polite as i could the first time but if you are gonna put it that way than GO FUCK YOURSELF HOMIE. you are not a "worthy person" surely no more than me for playing a fucking video game, even well AND without the so called "exploits" wich they are not by the way since it' all stuff present in the game you gan get and use in a legit way. wanna know what is and maybe even be a "worthy" person? than get da fuck out of your home and start doing something actually usefoul for society,instead of bitching about how more hard the game should be so you can compensate for you small dick by showing you "skillz" in this fucking ,again, VIDEOGAME. "unworthy person"! coz i use a weapon you don't like in a game...fucking looser.

    Your consideration toward the size of my genitals are dully noted, though according to the fact you were (since latest patches were supporting my way) advocating for easiness with your former stupidly braindead 4 yo suited weapons in the contrary of me, I fear your genitals must be way smaller than mines, though to be quite honest : I'm not interested at all about yours.

    Finally, your slang venting showing off your lack of vocabulary as capacity to argue demonstrates how pointless helping you (which your stupendous ego is ridiculously confusing with the society) definitely is... Thankfully smart devs prefer fairness and balance to please whining egomaniacs.

    Looks like the devs have settled anyway :D
    Suffer not exploiters to loot. Burn the lame players, kill the skaven and purge the bugs.
    image
    Most awaited new heroes :
    1- warrior priest of Sigmar
    2- wood elf wardancer/eternal guard
    3- bretonnian questing knight
    http://forums.fatsharkgames.com/discussion/1514/future-classes-i-d-like-to-play#latest
  • Halvars90Halvars90 56 PointsMember, Level3
    So bumping the thread.

    What do you guys think know that the current patch has been up awhile?

    Trueflight - less effective but still the most effective bow.
    BoltStaff - I do not use it any more, don't like it. It does not have the same power as the trueflight (probably intended).
    Fireballstaff - kills packs and stormvermins so hard it can sometime make the game lag. This staff makes all other staffs useless in comparison.

    The other weapons in the game I cant really say if there is better or worse. I know that some people saidthat the Glaive was bad in Cata but I have not tested it yet.

    So guys?
  • LTCpandersLTCpanders 22 PointsMember, Level2
    I mainly play Kerillian. Prior to the patch I only ever used a Trueflight Bow + DD.

    After the patch I've been using Hagbane and Swiftbow a lot. Trueflight is still strong but the changes have now opened some space for the other bows. Longbow still feels like it's looking for a job. Swiftbow pairs well with certain weapons and you can treat it as pretty reliable healing on nightmare with Bloodlust and pairs well with specialist weapons that may not have a healing trait (like Roger murdering DD with [Backstabbery, Dev Blow, Second Wind]. Swiftbow has been a lot of fun to use at least on nightmare. The amount of ammo it has allows you to switch the typical roles of your melee and ranged weapons in that Swiftbow can be used as your go to rat slaying weapon and your melee weapon to handle whatever Swiftbow has trouble against (Stormvermin - which means DD or Glaive).

    I've also been using S&D a lot. DD occassionally and have been trying to use DS and 1h Sword. I rolled a pretty good DS [Bloodlust 10%, Dev Blow, Improved Pommel 40%], but it seems to clash with my playstyle. I really like using intermittent heavy attacks on my melee weapons and the DS charged attack is just not that good and a bit too slow for my liking. Also I came across this reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Vermintide/comments/5ogejw/a_list_of_attacks_that_interrupt_stormvermins/. It explains a lot for me why I like certain weapons over others.

    I tend to not like using weapons where I heavily focus on only one of its attacks which seems to be the case for DS and 1h Sword. Also for the 1h Sword I really dislike the fact that pushing changes the attack pattern of [Light ←], [Light →], [Light stab] to [Push], [Light →], [Light stab].

    I really like the S&D (2nd heavy attack) and DD for the heavy attack interrupts against Stormvermim with Dev Blow.
  • Halvars90Halvars90 56 PointsMember, Level3
    "Longbow still feels like it's looking for a job" lol :) i guess it does.

    But regarding the Swiftbow I don't like it at all, I feel personally that any ranged-weapon that is only good at killing normal rats and weak against specials is a no-go for me. Like what do you do if your mates get dragged by a Packmaster or you spot a Gasrat?

    Nice find on Reddit, personally I only use weapons that tend to have good light and heavy attacks like Dagger & Sword, Glaive, Falchion, Flameblade (or what it is called). But think I will reflect on the info on Reddit when I get home.
  • ToutatrixToutatrix 176 PointsMember, Level4
    edited January 22
    Halvars90 said:

    So bumping the thread.

    What do you guys think know that the current patch has been up awhile?

    Trueflight - less effective but still the most effective bow.
    BoltStaff - I do not use it any more, don't like it. It does not have the same power as the trueflight (probably intended).
    Fireballstaff - kills packs and stormvermins so hard it can sometime make the game lag. This staff makes all other staffs useless in comparison.

    The other weapons in the game I cant really say if there is better or worse. I know that some people saidthat the Glaive was bad in Cata but I have not tested it yet.

    So guys?

    Bumping what ? The thread never leaved the main page and it's not like your last comment was any constructive.

    I think fireball staff is going to be nerfed too : it shouldn't allow to destroy an entire patrol that easily.

    Longbow would be fine with a better precision, at the moment there's a lot of misses, for with a double shot perk (don't know if it's its specific or not) it can be vert powerful.
    Suffer not exploiters to loot. Burn the lame players, kill the skaven and purge the bugs.
    image
    Most awaited new heroes :
    1- warrior priest of Sigmar
    2- wood elf wardancer/eternal guard
    3- bretonnian questing knight
    http://forums.fatsharkgames.com/discussion/1514/future-classes-i-d-like-to-play#latest
This discussion has been closed.